In episode 19 of Living Tarot, I interview my friend Tech Witch, Patty Ryan Lee. Patty Ryan Lee is the witch, tarot reader, and web developer behind The Fiery Well, a bespoke web design, branding, business, and tech support space just for witches. She works 1:1 with select clients and supports a community of business witches in her monthly membership program, The Wellspring. From your “why” to your “ how the fuck do I build it,” it is Patty’s goal to support you on your journey to online entrepreneurship.
- We talk about how Patty stepped into her role as a web designer creating websites for witches and also how she accepted the label of witch.
- We discuss how motherhood changed Patty and I helped her show up as her authentic self.
- We discuss how important it is to understand your why in business and how no matter how much work you put in, if you can’t answer that question it makes everything else you’re doing more difficult.
- Patty talks all about creating her tech support community for Woo prenuers, The Fiery Well.
- Patty is currently taking a social media break through the end of the year but you can check out her blog all about it here and follow along with how she runs an online business without social media
Connect with Sheila:
To book a tarot reading, virtual tarot party, or distance Reiki session with Sheila click here – https://app.acuityscheduling.com/schedule.php?owner=18090641
To read more about Sheila’s offerings click here – https://www.starsagespirit.com/services/
Or on Instagram www.instagram.com/starsagespirit
Connect with Patty:
Follow along with Patty’s Anti-Social media Captain’s Log here: https://thefierywell.com/2020/10/30/saying-goodbye-to-facebook-instagram/
Find me at thefierywell.com
Freebie for your audience: https://thefierywell.com/tuesdays-without-tarot/
Transcript:
Sheila M 0:05
Welcome to Living Tarot. I’m your host Sheila Masterson. I’m a tarot reader and teacher, an energy healer and medium, and creator of Practical Tarot for Everyday Intuitives. Each week on this podcast, I’ll share my own experience of embracing and growing intuition, and interview guests about how they heard the call of intuition, embraced the adventure, and embodied the tarot along the way. Join us and learn how you can stop second guessing. Empower yourself through intuition and live intentionally with the Tarot.
Hey there a tarot friend. I wanted to ask you for a quick favor. I’ve been working very hard behind the scenes to get Living Tarot out there in front of as many people as possible, but I can’t do it without your help. So for the month of November 2020, I am running a special contest. And the prize will be a career ahead tarot reading, which is a reading of the full view of the year ahead in your business or career. So if you would like to enter, head on over to Apple podcasts, and review Living Tarot, preferably with a five star review, and leave a comment about what you learned from the podcast, your favorite episode, or even questions that you might have, that you’d like me to answer on upcoming episodes, and then share a screenshot of that review over on Instagram and tag me @StarSageSpirit. And if you don’t have Instagram, you can always send a screenshot to my email. I’ll include more info about how to enter this contest over on Instagram and in the show notes for today’s episode.
Welcome back to Living Tarot. I am so excited today to interview one of my business besties, Patty Ryan Lee. Patty Ryan Lee is the witch, tarot reader, and web developer behind The Fiery Well and bespoke web design, branding, business and tech support space just for witches. She works one on one with select clients and supports a community of business witches in her monthly membership program the wellspring from your why? to your How the fuck do I build it? It is Patty’s goal support you on your journey to online entrepreneurship. Patty, as I said, is a friend from a business program that I was in earlier this year. I have also been a member of her membership program the wellspring for about six months now. And it has absolutely opened my eyes not just to how to be more efficient with my tech in business, but also how to include things like accessibility and some of my online offerings, and how to continue to develop a web presence that’s in alignment with how I really want to be serving my customers and not just how I feel like I should be serving my customers. This conversation was so much fun. And we had a really lovely discussion about how Patty embodies the hanged one because of her ability to really shift perspective, and also the six of swords in the way that she can really help Shepherd you away from the things that aren’t working. Even if you don’t know exactly where you can end up. She really acts as a facilitator to get you there. So I am so excited for you to listen to this episode. Let’s dive right in.
Awesome so welcome to Living Tarot today I have my friend Patti with me Patty Can you introduce yourself and tell us what it is that you do?
Patty Ryan Lee 4:17
Hi, waving doesn’t work because this is on the air. But I am currently waving from Dayton, Ohio and I am Patty Ryan Lee. And I am the witch and tarot reader and web developer behind The Fiery Well. I make quote unquote hashtag websites for witches. And I help soul centered entrepreneurs and “woopreneurs” as I like to call them with all of their technical and I guess because oh my god, yes. Yes. I sing as well with all their shit with all their technical shit. Right. So and I’m kind of adding in, like business guidance. So it’s, you get kind of business guidance plus the technical it’s what should I do? Okay. How the hell do I do it? This way? Here’s your systems. Here’s your technical to go with it. So that’s kind of where I’m headed with my membership, The Wellspring of which you are currently a member.
Sheila M 5:13
I am a member. I know. And and one of the reasons that I wanted to have you on is because I think that what you do is so unique. I mean, I’m sure you don’t, because you’re out there seeing everybody who’s doing the same thing similar to me, you know, where I’m like sitting everybody else’s reading tarot. I’m like, Oh, this is just like everybody else. But But I think your you know, your perspective is unique. And we were in a business development program earlier this year, during the the beginning of the pandemic and the craziness of the year. And I’m really, I mean, part of what inspired me to join, join the wellspring When you opened it was that in our in our little, like, chat group for, for the group of people that was in that program, you there was like, not a single question that came up that you couldn’t just kind of, like, rattle off an answer to like, how does Patty know literally everything about every piece of technology like this, unbelievable. And since joining, I’ve seen how much like I’m, I’m a big fan of saying stay in like, you know, zone of genius, and and all of that. And I think like, I’ve seen how from the very beginning, because I joined in your first run how like your program has evolved, and it just keeps getting better. And you keep kind of narrowing it down more and more towards what what you really want to do. So it’s been very helpful for me, because I would say that technology is not a part of my zone of genius. And I recognized this year, how important it is to make an investment in the things that you aren’t good at when you are an entrepreneur.
Patty Ryan Lee 6:57
It Yeah, and that’s kind of it’s very difficult to do, yes. To say, Oh, I need help. That’s very hard for me to do. And then to actually go out and do it. That takes a very high level of bravery. Yes.
Sheila M 7:18
And truly, like not just because we’re friends, but like it has truly been worth its weight in gold. Since I, it’s not even, you know, it is the support, absolutely. But it’s also the peace of mind that I have that if I get into something where I’m in over my head, I have somebody that I can go to that is a resource. So it’s not just the community itself. But it’s also the fact that you’ve set yourself up in such a way that I feel really confident coming to you with problems with issues that come up in pretty much any kind of system that I’m running into, to be honest, yeah.
Patty Ryan Lee 7:58
That makes me very happy to hear. And it’s, I’ve done my best to simplify. I want to lead by example and say, Hey, you don’t have to pack it all in. You can do this very simply. Very easily. Less is more. And I am insurance. Yeah, I am. nobody really wants right. But I am the insurance company for your technical problems. Like, Oh shit, how does this work in ConvertKit? Oh, fuck. Oh, yeah, well, you just do this. Let’s hop on a loom. Let’s hop on a workshop. And let’s just do this, right?
Sheila M 8:36
Yeah, it’s literally I’ll ask a question. And like five minutes later, there’s like a video that’s like, here’s the step by step walkthrough of how to do it. And I’m like, how did? How did you do it so fast? And it’s the best i can’t i truly, I can’t recommend it enough. I’m like your biggest fan girl. But um, I know you’ve been doing this basically. Like, since it began, since web development was like, I think you’re doing it a really long time. So can you talk a little bit about what led you to that and what kind of got you started?
Patty Ryan Lee 9:08
My parents started a.com in 1995 -1996. And it really started as a competition between my dad and myself of who could understand HTML, more quicker. He won, but then I went off to do a lot more right and, um, yeah, so it was a website dedicated to the industrial weighing industry. Shout out skill Buyer’s Guide, but I closed that last year to focus on my baby. Which time I didn’t have a baby. In terms of business, I had a I had an actual living child. But yeah, I’ve been doing this a while. I was 10 when they started. Just to age myself and I love it. I love the technology. I don’t Like the rapidness of it, like there’s constantly something new to learn. As I’m sure you feel in business, it’s like, oh, fuck, something’s changed. I have to learn this again, I have to learn it over. Now there’s something new. And if you look back, all websites are still built on HTML. Yep. Right. It’s still Tim berners. Lee internet, right. And that’s not going to, I hope, knock on wood. It’s not going to change. Hi, guys. So it is much new technologies out there. You can still do the basics, you can still do this simple. Keep it simple. And it’s taken a long time for me to realize that I was always trying to figure out okay, I need to learn this crap. Can you learn this? crap? I’ve already forgotten what I just.
Sheila M 10:48
Yeah, only so much can fit in your head at once.
Patty Ryan Lee 10:52
Yeah, right. And then every company I ended up working for whether it was hired as a secretary or chocolatier. I ended up doing their website. It didn’t matter. Like it’s like, oh, you know this? It’s like, yeah, what’s hard about this. Apparently, it’s actually quite difficult. Uh, yeah. Okay, let’s, let’s walk you through this and how to do this. And, yeah, the ways.
Sheila M 11:18
I think a big part of like intimidation, too, you know, I think like, um, for me at least, well, first of all, I do want to go back to something that you said, which is like, you get into business for yourself, and you think that you’re doing one thing. So like, I started my company, and I was like, Okay, I’m doing healing work and Tarot. So like, I’m doing Reiki, and I’m doing Tarot. So it’s like, all I have to do, but then you’re like, Okay, well, like, I should probably have a website, like, at least so people can like find me. So then you’re like, I always say, being a solopreneur. and protect in particular, it’s like, you have two jobs all of the time, you have the business manager, who’s learning how to build the website, how to maintain the website, how to do email marketing, how to set up your scheduler, how to do all of that stuff. And then you’ve got the person who’s actually the work that you actually set out to do, which is actual session work. I’m working with people and teaching Tarot. And one of the things that being in the wellspring has really helped me with is like, the business manager apart because I’m like, okay, I don’t have time to do research on these 17 technology tools to try to figure out which one is worth learning. So like, it kind of like narrows that down and in a major way. But also, one of the things that has been really helpful is, you kind of you don’t just say like this, you explain the why behind it. Yes, it has been very helpful for me, because you can understand that there’s different personalities that are coming in looking for different things. And so it’s kind of like, this isn’t better than this. It’s more about like, what works for you. And you make it right, even though it is a community, you make it very personal, which I think is awesome.
Patty Ryan Lee 13:09
Oh, wonderful. I’d love to hear that. Because that’s that’s the goal. Because I I’m glad you mentioned why because that has been my obsession for this last year is figuring out the why why do you do this? Why are you this way? You know, what is? What is my motivation, as they would say? Right? Yeah. And it comes down exactly in technology. What, what website maker should I use? Should I use Squarespace? Should I use WordPress? And it’s like, well, what are you trying to do? Yeah, that’s what matters. Yeah. Because you may not need either. I’m the web developer that will tell you, you don’t need a website. Yep. I need the tool that does what you’re trying to do. Right. And that’s been a difficulty is not everybody needs the square peg. Right? Um, or the square hole? I’m a round peg. Yeah. How do I use come to me and I can help you figure that out. I had a conversation in a group. And it was like, you know, if you ask in a Facebook group, hey, what do you recommend for a website, right? And you get umpteen replies. They’re all different. And it’s like, I’m the only one asking questions. It’s like, Well, excuse me. What do you What are you actually trying to do? Yeah. Oh, ah, and it stops people in their tracks. Because most people think about their website in terms of, quote, unquote, a website makes it real. Thank you. Squarespace. I hate you. A not to knock Squarespace. It works. If it’s the tool for you. That’s the tool you should use. But like, I have opinions and all these I have hot takes on all of them.
Sheila M 14:59
Lay ’em down. I’ll take hot takes All night.
Patty Ryan Lee 15:04
Oh, it comes down to most people don’t know why they want a website. They know that they need one, they know that they’ve been fed that line, I need a website, or I’m not a real business, I need a website or I can’t do this. And I think it’s a wonderful excuse that people have. And I think I’m guilty of it myself spending a lot of time working on your website, because you’re unsatisfied in your business. Yep. Yep.
Sheila M 15:31
I think like, I’ve seen so many, especially now that I am in more, you know, business groups on Facebook and different communities. I see. I can see it now. As soon as somebody starts asking the question about the tools, you know, what I mean? That they’re, like, distracted by like, a shiny thing, you know, like, they’re like, what’s gonna? And, and it’s a different quality, then somebody who comes in and is like, Hey, I’m having this problem. What tool Have you guys use to solve this problem? It’s more like, um, you know, what’s the best marketing software? I looked at this? But like, I don’t really know, you know, and you’re, like, just talk to people?
Patty Ryan Lee 16:12
Well, and it’s hard to to articulate what it is you’re trying to do, when it’s something you’ve never done before. Right. And your only experience is observing other people that have got this mastered on Instagram, or Facebook, and they have these complete sales funnels. It’s all automated. And it’s, you know, the, what do they call it? The, the money you don’t work for?
Sheila M 16:40
Oh, passive income. Passive income. Yeah, that’s like a ton of work.
Exactly. I like the idea of passive like, it takes so many steps to get to that point. And I think like, for me, even just like this podcast is the perfect example. Because I was like, oh, like, I really want to do a podcast, because I just, I didn’t feel like the blog was landing in the same way as a conversation does. And so I was like, well just do this podcast. So I just need to be able to record. And then I need editing software. And then I just need like, a place to host the RSS feed. That’s it. But then it was like, oh, except that I need a process. You know, I and I’m, like, Miss, like, strategic. So I’m like, Well, I need like a standard standard operating procedure for like, the whole process that I’m going to do. So I have like, I literally have like project management software, where I track track every single step. And I’m like, people see a podcast, they don’t know, they were like, literally 12 steps. Until that was out. You know, it’s having the conversation with the guests like a filler conversation, and then the actual scheduling conversation, and sending them the email with all of the information and then actually doing the interview, and then editing the podcast, and then doing the transcript. Oh, my God, that is the part. brutal, like checking the transcript right now. And like, that’s the first thing I’m outsourcing, checking the transcripts. And then, you know, making the show notes, doing the graphics, doing the sound clips, then finally uploading it sending all the stuff to the guest. I’m like, there’s literally like 15 steps between me like scheduling someone and actually getting the podcast up and running.
Patty Ryan Lee 18:23
And the brain space required to consider all of that, r
Sheila M 18:27
right, less now b/c i have a system.
Patty Ryan Lee 18:30
Right? But it can only become a system once you start.
Sheila M 18:35
Right. Exactly.
Patty Ryan Lee 18:37
Exactly. That’s where a lot of people get tripped up. It’s, well, I need to have everything perfect before I can do anything. Yes. And I’m guilty of it in past. I mean, I’ve been a web developer for 20 plus years. And it scares the shit out of me to say hi, yes, I’m a web developer. 20 years of experience. Yeah. Like I used to dream in code. But I’m not good enough. Right? I have to show that I am perfection. Yeah, before I can ever get a client. Well, how do you get a client? Without doing the work? Like how does it’s a bad cycle that you get yourself into?
Sheila M 19:17
Yeah, and we all do this and and i think women or people who were socialized female growing up do it especially because we have this idea that we are somehow like less than or really, we’re socialized to believe that we’re less than, and we should always be in my supporting roles. And I still remember this conversation I had with my mom It was quite a few years ago now but she had been working at the same company that she had worked at, like since I was like born like she had been there for like 25 years. And they were closing down her office and they offered her the opportunity to move like to relocate or to like take a layoff and she was so um she was so upset because um, she She didn’t, she didn’t go to college, she went to a trade school and she had literally 25 years of experience. And she was like, she was like, I’m gonna get disqualified from all of these jobs because I don’t have a bachelor’s degree. And I was like, if you get disqualified by a company because you have 25 years of experience instead of a bachelor’s degree, you don’t want to work there. Like that is the place. No vision, and it’s ridiculous. Like that ridiculous thing to be worried about. How dare you?
Patty Ryan Lee 20:30
Yes. And but it’s because I’ve always I bucked the system from a very young age. When I was in seventh grade, I convinced my mother to homeschool me. My gosh, bless her , I don’t know, she still doesn’t know how I did it. And it stuck, right? And I refuse to take the SAT ACTS refused. And it was like, Okay, well, then you’re going to have to, like stick with community college or whatever else. Like, that’s fine. I don’t want to be a number on somebody’s piece of paper. You know, and I don’t want a career. I always wanted to have like multiple jobs. I should have known better. And don’t want that too much. But I was like, I don’t want to fall in line with any system, especially. And I didn’t even understand the system I was in at the time. But I knew something did not mesh out there. With what I had going on inside me. I was like, This is not and it’s most people would say, well, you’re an Aquarius. I know of course you’re going buck.
Sheila M 21:37
Such an Aquarius right now. And I say that as somebody who in my life is very surrounded by Aquariuses
Patty Ryan Lee 21:49
Oh, hell, I for the longest time I thought aquarians were water signs. Like, with the waves, you know? And I’m like, Yeah, what’s the
Sheila M 21:56
well it’s the water water bearer? So it’s a little confusing,
Patty Ryan Lee 21:59
right? I’m like, so of course, I’m gonna have like an a skewed version, and view of the world. In my own zodiac sign is like, what? Right? So yeah, astrology still escapes me. I’m trying. I’m trying to learn. How do you keep this all together? I’ll stick with code.
Sheila M 22:25
Excited. Let’s talk about that part of it a little bit, because I understand the web developer part. But what kind of brought on the websites for witches? Like when did you get into all of the witchy or stuff and like, you know, being more into the woo of it all?
Patty Ryan Lee 22:44
Oh, I’ve always been a witch. I’ve always been accused of being a witch. Yeah. And it’s like, Are you are you because I was like, the goth kid when I was in school. I was the creepy kid. You know, I was the one always in black. Are you going to a funeral want to make it yours kind of person. And, you know, I was always struggling with my identity and all of this. And I really, really rejected religion. My father was raised Catholic. My mother was raised Protestant, Irish Catholic, English Protestant.
Sheila M 23:22
I was like that sounds like a war right there.
Patty Ryan Lee 23:27
We used to always joke. My mom would want to go to church for the music and the community. And my dad would sit there, like, closed off, arms folded skin crawling. Like, ugh, because he had pretty much stepped away from the church. Law Long, long ago. And with my sister who’s 10 years, my senior, love you Emily. She was she was the hippy. She was the witch. She was the one with the tarot cards. And she was the cool sister, right? She’s a leo, like,
Sheila M 24:04
oh my gosh she’s me. I I’m a cool sister. I’m the tarot card reading sister. Oh my gosh. I’m looking at my baby sister right now. And she’s an Aquarius.
Patty Ryan Lee 24:16
See, there we go. And we have that total opposite thing.
Sheila M 24:19
Oh my gosh. Yeah. Let’s continue. Sorry.
Patty Ryan Lee 24:24
Oh, she was always you know, with the tarot cards in the witchy in the ouiji board. Okay, creepy. My dad is just like he would raise everything wholly up that he still believed in. And so I witnessed him with that in the occult, and I witnessed my mom just want the music. My mom loves music, loves gospel music, especially and wanting that sense of community. And yet, I’m the one sitting in I can remember what it’s called anymore. But where you sit and you get preached at when you look up If I felt like I was in an overturned boat, and I was looking up at the hull of the ship, like the with the Gothic arches and the way it’s designed, I’m like, I feel like I’m in an capsized boat. I feel like I’m in Poseidon, which is my my dad’s favorite movies. I’m like, I can’t be the only one feeling this right now. Right? There’s something wrong. And it was a very young age, I realized that what they were saying up front. Everybody down in the pews. Everybody heard something different. Because I am not hearing what y’all hear.
Sheila M 25:35
Same. My parents would be like, like, that was great. Like, yeah, what? are you kidding me? That was so uncomfortable. And also it always, I think from the time I was really young, even before I understood everything about myself. Now, I always thought it was weird to like go through, like in Catholicism, you have to like everything goes through the priest or like the Pope, you know, like, like the only Oh, yeah, it’s something you can’t pray. But like, everything important has to come from like a priest. And to me, even as a kid that was always like, fucked up. Like, I just, I never got it. I never connected with it. And it never felt like the truth to me. And then, on top of that, of the political stuff with the church, like, even when I was young just made me uncomfortable. Like, I don’t like I’m very, I think I have like, a problem with authority. And like the second somebody’s like, don’t do this thing. And I’m like, Well, I didn’t want to have sex. But now I do.
Patty Ryan Lee 26:37
What? Why don’t show me a red button. Or I’m going to want to press exactly button.
Sheila M 26:44
Now I just love this stuff. Yes.
Patty Ryan Lee 26:47
Yeah. And because we moved around, we went to Presbyterian churches, we went to Methodist. We never went through like a pure, proper Catholic Church. I think my dad probably just was like, No, I’m staying home. He stayed on most of them anyway. But, um, I was carted off to Sunday school, while they did like the regular thing. And I never understood that. I was like, Why do I have to go in this little room? And then they didn’t like that. I asked questions. Like, what? And why? Wait a minute. I thought he was I thought there were nails involved. He wasn’t just tied. No, no, no, honey, we don’t we don’t talk about I’m like, why am I getting a different story? Seven, why am I getting a different story? And it’s like, I don’t I don’t get this at all. So when I finally could voice I think it was in my late teens. I was like, I have to be at work. I can’t go. I’m tired. I’m done. I stopped we I stopped going. mom kept going. And then she got sick of the politics and you have to bring food and tithing. And isn’t that just like, screw this. But it’s like, I’m done. And I started picking up my own tarot deck and perusing the occult section of you know, the entire bookshelf that it was in Barnes and Noble at the time. Oh my god, with Silver Ravenclaw books. I think what’s your name? Was all Wicca. And I was like, Is this all there is like, is that it? There’s just Wicca. There’s nothing else. Like I don’t want another religion. Like, okay, so I guess I’m not a witch. And that was just like, I was just, I’m a theist, I guess. I don’t know what I am. But the witch is the closest thing right? Yeah. So I finally just leaned into it. And it was after I gave, I was pregnant with my son. And, ah, when you’re filling out the hospital documents for admission, you have to fill out your religion. And I just wrote, witch – just if something happens to you, they want to know if that makes sense.
Sheila M 29:10
Yeah, there’s, there’s rules about people’s bodies and stuff and like how they should be treated and stuff. So I get it. Okay. I’m like, I’m like weird.
Patty Ryan Lee 29:20
It was it First of all, like, Oh, we let make sense. Okay. Yeah. But the fact that I filled it out without thinking about it. Mm hmm. I was like, Oh, shit. I scribbled it out real quick. I’m like, I don’t want I want they’re probably going to get somebody wiccan in here. And I don’t want that. And to what they even know what the hell it meant, or would it make them run scared? Like, what would your judgment I’m about to go and give birth? And I’m worried about this, what I scribbled it out and just put agnostic. And yeah, so after giving birth, I should say my child. They they kind of put a I don’t know a kick in my ass to really be true to myself. Yeah, it’s like, I have to model. How am I supposed to honor who they’re gonna be if I can’t honor who I am. Yeah, and it was a whole thing re parenting the whole thing. Like, so far Oh, shit. I was like, I don’t recommend it. I love my child. I love my job. But if there is a glimmer of doubt about having kids don’t do it. Because they don’t tell you this part. Right. So yeah, and I just really started to just like, you know what, fuck it. I am a witch. Yeah. And then, like, so much fell into place after that and became so much easier. It was astounding. Yeah, how much more relaxed in myself, I felt. And I’m trying to figure out what to do for business. Like I’m trying to take on I inherited my family’s dotcom. I’m a woman. I hate scales. Okay. No, thank you. Like, I know how to properly calibrate them and do that is like, I know. I think this is not mine. This is not my baby, right? Mom’s like, then let it go. Like, full on Elsa. Let it go.
Sheila M 31:23
Yeah, seriously,
Patty Ryan Lee 31:25
And like, it took me like three years to finally convince myself. I was like, Okay, so what do I do? What do I do? Okay, you have to niche down or niche down. I haven’t made a website for anybody other than myself in 10 years, what am I going to do? What am I going to do? So I started reading, you know, you have to consume everything before you can take a step. You have to consume this that make sure you’re taking the next right step. And I want to book about niching down, and I’m reading this gun. What the fuck am I supposed to do make websites for witches? And I could feel the heat from the bulb over my head. I’m like, I just got I was like, I threw my hands up in the air. About near threw the ebook out of my hands is like, Oh my god, can I do that? Why the fuck not? Yeah. I was like, do witches need websites? Oh, girl.
Yes, I do. Yes, they do. Yes, I can tell you that right now. Um, I love that.I love like how that came up. Because I feel like that’s always what happens when people are like, Wait, can I really do this? Like, can I actually make a living doing this thing that like is this crazy idea that popped into my head? I’m so I know you kind of describe yourself on top of that. As a tarot reader? Did you learn Tarot from your sister? Like, what kind of and how long have you been reading?
So I’ve been reading since I was about 1415. Okay. And often on a she used to do a full 32 card spread. And she never read the cards, like intuitively she write everything out of a book. And each card had a position that had a meeting. And ah, and it was fascinating to watch. So I got the book in my late teens. And I was reading through and I got a deck at Barnes and Noble – a kit thing that they had at the time. I was like, Can I do this? No one is stopping me? Okay, so, and I started playing with it, and it was all pips. So you had the court cards and you had your major and then you just had five coins for five coins. It’s like, how does anybody memorize this? Because there’s nothing to go off of. I had never seen the rider Waite deck. Yeah, Pamela Smith deck. I had never seen that. And it’s like, what the hell? So I did a couple of readings for friends. That turned out to be on point and it’s like, oh, usually negative. And, like, okay, we’re gonna put that way for a while and not always get back into it. Cuz somebody’s like, oh, read the cards. Okay, sure. And my dad Of course, he’d walked into the room with the blessing, you know, like blessing himself. You only pulled up the blessing when the Luigi board came out? Oh, yeah. I can’t blame him on that. And I was a kid. It moved on me and I wasn’t near it was like it was across the room. I was like, oh, and our house was haunted as fuck. That’s like a portal. I yeah, I don’t we had we had one pass down. So it’s like, oh, we’re good.
And tarot I’ve always had and I’ve always dabbled with, and I’ve always tried to make a consistent practice with it. But if you force it, it does. Work has always been my experience. So I let it come, I let it go when I needed to comes when I don’t need it. I don’t. And then when I met my now husband, I was like, Okay, well, this is getting serious. I think it’s time that I show him. I do this weird shit
Sheila M 35:26
I love this so much.
Patty Ryan Lee 35:28
Just test the waters. So I pulled out my cards, and I pulled out the book, you know, and it’s all wrapped up in the silk. Cuz, you know, like, when you think about this, he’s like, Oh, that’s cool. Let me show you the sigil that I drew, that I’ve had this psychic tribe. and I’m Like, wait a minute, okay, so I know that you kind of like we’re okay with, like horoscopes and this and that, but like, you’re into it. Sweet!
Sheila M 35:59
Seriously!
Patty Ryan Lee 36:01
Yeah. And that was? Yeah, I mean, it was. We were destined, quote, unquote, to be so it kind of, but it was like, Here’s Your out.
Sheila M 36:11
Oh, my gosh, that’s so funny.
Patty Ryan Lee 36:14
And still didn’t play with them all that much. And then we went to a Halloween party about nine or 10 years ago. And I was inappropriately dressed. Let’s just put it that way. And brought my cards. And I spent four hours doing readings non stop. And I was freaking myself out with how accurate they were. And the people around me. And then like I started hearing other things. I’m like, I don’t know what this is. I don’t want to now. We’re not doing that. I’ve not had enough to drink for this. And I was like tripping high as a kite. euphoric for days afterwards. I do this for a living because this is like who? I was like, wait a minute, can I do this for a living? Am I any good? So then it went into Okay, now I have to study? Yep. And okay, so I started getting more books. And as I read these books, like, I never saw that in this card. What the hell? I must be doing this completely wrong. Yeah, I put them away for a while. And we’ll get the cards out. Okay, sure. Holy fuck. How did you know that? Well, I don’t know. Yeah. Cool. So when you had your course I’m like, Okay. Do I need another round of study? She’s, she’s not the whole study thing, right? It’s, do you have a meaning for the card? That’s the meaning. And it was so liberating. It was the first time I’d actually gotten like, an outside education and resource for it. And it was so liberating to know. I know what the fuck I’m doing. Because it’s not just the car.
Sheila M 38:11
Yeah, your face when I said that in the q&a was like, it was like the my like the mind blown emoji? Yes. That’s like, yeah, like that’s the whole purpose. Like, yes. Does the card have like an objective meaning that most Tarot scholars or whatever have agreed on? Sure. But that is way less relevant because to me, and in the readings that I’ve done, what stands out even more are the times where it is like a complete departure from even like, my own definition of the card. Like when I see a card and just right away, like something comes into my brain. I’m like, Oh, that’s weird. That’s really important. Like, that’s not what that means. But that’s really important.
Patty Ryan Lee 38:50
And but just to now have like the permission. Yeah, to do that was just like, oh, so then even when I was just doing like, the freebie fun things I would do on Instagram. It’s like, I’m not gonna argue with it anymore. Like, here it is. And I pulled up a card. I was like, Alright, this means fuck you pay me for somebody. And somebody messaged me, the next day is like, yeah, that was for me. Like, I don’t have anything right now. I’m waiting in you know, I’m unemployed. I mean, the next day, I have a job offer. There you go.
Sheila M 39:26
I’m telling you, I it’s very funny with Tarot because I usually find that it’s like a look at just a teensy bit ahead sometimes for people. And so they’ll be like, okay, okay, like, that makes sense. That makes sense. You know, and, and like, it’s not like totally connecting, and then people will text me, like, a week later, or like two weeks later, and they’re like, How did you know? Like, that was so weird. Which I think is really funny about Tarot, because I’m always like, I tell and I tell people like, if you’re reading for someone else, like they may not always have the reaction in the moment. When you’re reading, it’s usually on like a little bit of a delay. And now I’ve gotten used to that. But in the beginning, it was terrifying. And in particular when you’re talking because I, I know what you’re talking about with like reading for people online. Originally, I was just doing email readings. And so I had this experience of like, people just asking a question, and then we pulling a bunch of cards and like sending them an email back. And I was like, I think there’s no context to this, like, we’re not having a conversation, which is like what I do in sessions now. It’s just like, if you asked me a question to me blindly telling you what I think. And people would email me back after those readings and be like, holy shit, how did you know all of this stuff? Like this is? Like, there is no way you could have known from the question I was asking. And it was just like, for, you know, I wouldn’t even have the person’s like, full information. And I was like, okay, maybe there’s something to this. Like, maybe I just got to kind of like, let it you know, like you said, Let it go. Let it go. Just what’s there. You know?
Patty Ryan Lee 41:02
that’s why for the longest time, I could only read while drinking. Ah, yes. libation. And it’s like, I had one reader go, you don’t need to do that. He’s like, get relaxed, on your own. lean into it. You know what you’re doing? Yeah, yeah. Filter gone.
Sheila M 41:27
Yeah. And it takes a while to feel comfortable with that, especially when you’re reading for other people. When you’re reading for yourself, it’s like a completely different experience. And you can kind of call your own bullshit. But like, when you’re when you’re reading for other people, like, you don’t always get the feedback. And some people are very, like stone faced. So you can’t really rely on it. And you shouldn’t really Anyway, you should just kind of read what you see. Because you’re responding to somebody like face, like, you might second guess yourself. So I would say like, stay stay in the zone. You know, I had this woman come in for a reading. And I was pulling cards for and like, literally three times the Justice card came up. And I was like, I don’t know what’s going on. I was like, we were doing a career reading. And like in three different polls that came up and I was like, I was like, Are you looking for a legal profession? I was like, the Justice keeps coming up. And I don’t know if it’s that, like, fairness is like this, like sense of like equity and like fairness is really important are like assessing what’s fair is really important. But like, I just keep seeing that Justice card. And I feel like it’s very, like it’s at the core of everything you do. And she’s like, well, I’m, I’m a judge. And the whole time, she’s been like super stone faced. And I was like, Oh my God. I was like, This makes much more sense now. keeps coming up. So that’s why like, it’s very funny when when stuff like that happens, because I’m like, this is so literal, like, y’all literal right now. And that’s why it’s so important to like, pay attention to that intuitive impulse.
Patty Ryan Lee 42:58
Yes. And do you notice and I’ve noted because I for the longest time, I only had the two decks, I had the one that was just pips. And then I had the Robin wood, they finally had imagery. And I built a relationship with this deck. And it does not like the public eye. So it stopped working for a while. I was like, What the hell is this?
Sheila M 43:16
My Coleman Smith rider Waite doesn’t like readings for other people. So I never like I use that deck personally. But it does not work very well for other people. So like you won’t see it on my Instagram and stuff or on my pick a cards, because it just doesn’t like people.
Patty Ryan Lee 43:31
Like this is why you need to connect with other readers or from other readers. Because for the longest time, I thought it was like What the hell is going on? Is it what is happening here? So I started buying other decks, which I thought I would never do. And now I own way too many.
Sheila M 43:50
Same
Patty Ryan Lee 43:51
Like the Modern Witch. That is my deck of reversals. Yes. As we show it is my deck of reversals, like nine out of 10 pulls is reversed. And it is the most literal of decks that I have ever had in my life.
Sheila M 44:12
I do find it in my readings to to also be pretty literal, which I think is interesting.
Patty Ryan Lee 44:17
Okay. That’s fascinating. That is fascinating to me.
Sheila M 44:22
And I use it a lot for other people’s readings.
Patty Ryan Lee 44:26
Yes, yeah. Yeah, I used it. When I was doing it for the general public for my questions from the Tarot. I was like, Oh, shit, can I actually ask this question?
Sheila M 44:38
I know, I know. I used forever I used Um, so my most commonly used one right after I first started other than the Coleman Smith rider Waite was the Star Child Tarot, which I used for literally like, two three years like for my own readings and for client readings and stuff and recently, I noticed that It just, I was having a it was so weird. It was almost like I was having like a mental block. I wrote a blog post about it about breaking up with a tarot deck. And I was saying how I was just having a really hard time reading it for some reason. Yeah. And like it had always, like, clicked right away when I read for other people. And I was like, something is going on here. Where like, it’s just not as easy to read anymore. And I’m not quite sure why. And so I shifted to another deck, of course, at first because of imposter syndrome. I was like, Oh my God, I’ve lost it. You know, like, I don’t have it anymore. You know, I’m no longer psychic
Patty Ryan Lee 45:39
like it’s aa tangible thing that you can buy at the store
Sheila M 45:42
exactly. Exactly. Um, and then I was like, Oh, wait, no, it’s still fine. It’s just, I think it’s just this deck. So I’ve been like on a little bit of a timeout, I still love it. Like, I still love that deck. But I’ve been using the Modern Witch in my readings for other people a lot. And it is, it is so interesting, because it is, I do find it to be like very like literal, which I think it’s like very fun. Like I they all have like a little personality, which I think is interesting. Even though iyou know as I say all the time, the cards aren’t magical. They’re an inanimate object, you know?
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Patty Ryan Lee 47:47
I think it’s I don’t know if it’s the imagery because I like because then I immediately go to the psychology of the imagery they used and the colors and all of this. So is it that so how we approach the deck because I have another deck. I had a friend over for reading. And I was like, Okay, do you want the kinder gentler deck for this? Or do you want like the Absolute Truth? And she’s like, well, let’s start here. And it’s very nice, elegant kind of deck. Simple. And it’s like, okay, like the message message is harsh. But it’s pretty. concrete.
Sheila M 48:23
I know. And I do I have some that are very, like direct and some that are like a little bit more gentle. And I will pay attention to that when I’m coming into. If I’m like, Oh, I’m feeling really raw today, I’m gonna like you. Nice to me, I’m gonna use this one. Because it’s a little more soothing, you know, and it’s not lying to yourself, but like, sometimes you can’t take the tough love,
Patty Ryan Lee 48:46
you know? You have to connect with that imagery, I think. Yeah, yeah. So how,
Sheila M 48:54
how does your intuition kind of show up? And not just in your readings, but also in your business? Because I know you’re kind of in the process right now of of reworking the wellspring, and that’s been very intuitively led. So what, what really inspired that for you, and and what, um, what made you decide to kind of shift things that way.
Patty Ryan Lee 49:20
I’m actually going closer to what I had originally wanted to do. But was talked out of which I think you hear a lot with people with intuition. It’s like my gut said to do this. And I was like, okayed, out of it. It’s like, it works, and I like it. But this is not me, this is not what I want. So we’re gonna go back and flow with the original plan, and that gut check and it felt good in the body. And just do and it’s like, the more in line I get with, my body feels because I’m learning to sense the intuition in my body? Like how does it feel? You know, cuz that has always been a disconnect cuz it’s always just been, you know you’re in the grocery store Oh, the alarms gonna go off? Fuck, fuck it went off. You know, what did I not get tagged? Right? That kind of annoying little while it’s not a voice but you can hear it in your head, I don’t know how else to describe it. And now I’m learning to sense it within the body so I can recognize, oh, this is what this means.
Sheila M 50:29
Yeah. And I think I talked about that in my high priestess embodiment course because especially when you’re first starting out with intuition. I mean, you’re kind of late in the game, you know, like years ago, it would have been much easier for you. But it’s funny because like, I always say like, the first step is to be able to recognize it in your physical body, because that’s what’s going to tip the scale between all the doubt that we feel when we have an illogical quote unquote, impulse. Yeah, um, and when that happens, if you can tune into the physical sensation, so initially, I would have, like, I would have like a real sensation, like in my chest like, right like at like my sternum, which was like a yes or a no, and they felt different. And then it changed. It changed a little over time. And so now, at like an I am having like a very untraditional shuffler. If you’ve ever had a reading with me that is not normal. Like, I tell people all the time, like, this is a really weird way to do things. But I don’t just shuffle the cards and then like, draw out the top 10 or whatever it is. I keep shuffling until it feels like the right card, which like I literally get like a chill in my body. And then I stopped and I flipped, because people people who come in for readings will watch me do it. And they’re like, how did you know it’s that card? I’m like, I don’t know. I just feel it. Like I just yeah, I’m just used to it now. And then sometimes I’ll get like a head nod or a head shake. Like sometimes if I just like, Listen for a second. I’ll get like a nod or and say, Yeah,
Patty Ryan Lee 52:12
I’d get like calm. Yeah, it’s just like this pure pindrop split second of just pure calm, which is not something I have much in my life. It’s like, oh, oh, I need to pay attention to that. Oh, okay. And I’ll stop shuffling or a card will fall out at that time. And it’s like, Oh, okay. I’m having a conversation. And all of a sudden, I’ll go from palpitations to calm and it’s like, oh, okay, here we go. And it’s just a deep calm. I don’t know how to describe it. Cuz I’m not like a very calm as I shake, like jazz hands all over the place. I’m not kidding. This is audio only.
Sheila M 53:04
It’s hard because we are technically looking at each other. So it makes sense. But yeah, and variously my partner is an Aquarius, and I we’re always talking about like Aquarius, Leo, thank you and I, but my partner is an Aquarius, and I know Gemini rising and it’s always like talking with his hands. Like, whenever we would like to eat I’d be like, Oh, you’re gonna slap the waitress? Like, talk with your hands less, you know?
Patty Ryan Lee 53:36
Yeah, I yeah. And it’s my husband can always go. Are you excited about something? Exactly. Very, very movie. Right? Like, it’s going up? Yeah. I love
Sheila M 53:50
Yeah, I love the way that you talked about, like your intuition, like showing up physically. I did an interview that’s coming out two weeks from when this episode airs with Eliza swan. Who wrote anatomy of the aura. And she, um, she talks about how we were talking about Clairaudience because I have like a lot of auditory stuff. And she was saying for her Clairaudience, I am trying to remember how she said it. She said, it’s like, there’s someone talking at the bottom of a well, in the middle of her brain. She’s like, it’s sounds like there’s like a muscle like at the bottom of the well in the middle of my brain. I was like, Oh my gosh, yes.
Patty Ryan Lee 54:33
Oh my gosh. Like I am stunned because now it’s like trying to remember. Yeah. Oh, I’ll have to pay more attention to that now.
Sheila M 54:43
Yeah, yeah. It’s so fascinating. Yeah.
Patty Ryan Lee 54:48
Whoo. I like that.
Sheila M 54:50
And I often find for me, and it’s a little bit different for me because I, um, you know, sometimes it will be like the lack of sound like you said, like, you Find that like stillness. So sometimes he has I am very auditory. Sometimes it will be like there’s a lack of sound. And I’m like, Oh, what’s that? I have to like, signal to like pause and listen for a second because it’s like, the entire world’s been like turned way down.
Patty Ryan Lee 55:16
Mm hmm. That’s interesting. Because I sometimes I’ll just blurt out things that I just know. I don’t know where that came from. But apparently I know that, because it’s like, Did I hear it before I said it, but I think it before I said it, I have to pay attention. Because now that I’m learning to pay attention, yeah. Like, where is that happening? So that I can tap into that more. But my problem is that my intuition is usually Bad. Bad things.
I hear this a lot. And I’m, I’m curious about it, because I’ve heard it from a couple different people. And then like, what is that because every once in a while, I will get something that’s quote unquote, bad. So when you say bad, what do you mean?
miscarriages, divorces, deaths. Um, you know, the alarms gonna go off, fascism is going to rise in the United States, that kind of thing.
Sheila M 56:22
So, okay, this is interesting question about this. And I think that when it is something like that, and I talked about this again, in in the High Priestess thing, I think that often when it is something that is like a threat, or like something dangerous, which again, is different for different people, and people would learn from experiences, people of color. People have like a different lived experience. It’s it’s different, though. Yeah. But it’s always the things where we assess danger, that seems to be louder and easier to recognize, you know what I mean? So it might just be that you’re more aware of that initially, then some of the other stuff, too.
Patty Ryan Lee 57:05
That is interesting. I will have to pay attention to that. Because it’s, yeah, because and actually, that makes a lot of sense. Because the more I’m aware of my own anxieties of my now that I’m I had to go to therapy to realize that I actually had trauma in my life. I was like, This isn’t normal. No, honey, this is this is this is not normal. Like, that’s what happens. Everybody doesn’t live in this constant state of panic. That’sa weird. Wait, I had a traumatic childhood. Really? Oh, oh. Oh, wow. Okay. And since I’m aware of all of these things, now, ignorance is really bliss. That’s all. I was like, uh, let me be cipher with my medium rare steak in the matrix and just put me back in. But at the same time, No, I’m good. Now that I’m aware of that, in my anxieties. And what is that and learning now to decipher the intuition? Where in the body? Is this bad? No, this is this is like you said a warning. Okay. I’m aware now, there’s actually less of it. A more attention to that. This is, as I tell my friends, this is my year of paying attention to my body.
Sheila M 58:23
Yeah. Which is amazing. Yeah. And also, yeah, sometimes what can help too is like choosing something lower stakes. So one of the things we do is I could give, I could not give any less of a shit about fantasy sports of any kind. But we will play a game sometimes where we see whose team does better. Now, do I know anything about any teams? No, I do not. I do not. I don’t know anything about fantasy golf. I don’t know what’s happening. But we will play each other where one of us is obsessed and knows everything about everything. And one of us is just you know, me. And it’s been very interesting, because last year, last August, we went to Ireland. And it was kind of a ploy, because my partner is really into golf and wanted to see the British Open, which was in Northern Ireland. Oh, and I had never, I’d never been to, or Well, we had been one time to Northern Ireland, but I hadn’t spent like a lot of time there. So I was like, Okay, cool. So we went to the British Open. And when we were on the way there, he was, like, I want to place it that like Who do you think I should bet on and he was going through all of like, the top people like, I mean, like the top like 30 people or something that we’re gonna win. And I was like, No, no, no, no, no, it’s got to be one of these people. And I was like, it’s not just like, it’s nobody that you said. And then he just like gave up on me and like, picked somebody that he wanted to pick. And then it ended up being this guy that was from Ireland and was like, if you would place a bet on him. We won so much money. I don’t know. about sports out 64 to one or something like, oh, wow, the longest long shot for this guy to win. And what was hilarious is that not so hilarious at the time, but I sprained my ankle the day before we went and if you’ve ever been to a golf event, you know, a lot, a lot of walking, and a lot of road walking. And so I was and I’ve never, I’ve never like truly, like badly sprained my ankle, except for this time. And it’s so bad. Everybody was like were you drunk? I was like, No, I, we were literally on the bar, like, on our way to the bar the first night to like, have one beer and go to bed because we were so good legs. And I liked it. I there was like an uneven curve, and I just twisted it. And as soon as I did, I was like, Oh, it’s so bad. But anyway, we’re,we’re walking around and halfway through the day, I was like, I am in so much pain, like, I need to sit down, I need to have a drink. Like they’re so starting to drizzle. Like this is like, I was just like having like a Leo drama, hissy fit. And my partner’s like, Oh, no, no, it’s okay. Like, there’s a champagne tent over here. Like he was like your champagne intent. And I was like, fine. So going to the champagne. And what I am expecting in the champagne tend not to be sexist. But what I’m expecting the champagne tent is to basically be all the women that are at the event, which I guess is my problem, because I go right. And it’s a bunch of like, bro old guys in there together, just like splitting bottles of champagne, watching on these watching on these giant TVs. And I was like, it’s this real life. Like, what is happening right now?
So he gets me some champagne. And I’m like, sitting in this one chair at this table with another couple and these, you know, two sets of like, dude, best friend old guys. And we’re watching on the screen. He’s like, I’m gonna go out and watch, you know, so and so tee off like, and there was Wi Fi at the event. So we could text each other on WhatsApp. So he’s out there for a while and I’m watching. And this, they start showing the guy like the guy who wins, I’m seeing him. And I texted I texted my partner and I was like, Hey, I think we should go over to 14 and see this guy. I was like, you know, I just like I have a feeling about this. And he was just like, I mean, the last day he just like, climbed right right up the standings. I mean, it was like, all these people were doing crappy. And he just climbed right up. He was like, How did you know? Like, how did you know that? I was like, I don’t know. I just like look, oh, no, you know, like, it’s sometimes with the lower stakes stuff where you don’t give a shit at all. It’s just very easy to see because you’re not putting like that pressure. And there’s also not that fear where you’re like, where your body’s like, Oh my god, I’m not safe. Like now I need the internet and
Patty Ryan Lee 1:02:54
well, it’s we were on our way to a wedding and, and it was just a flippin statement out the door. I was like I gave it two years. And like 22 months later, she’s on my door in tears getting a divorce. Yep. And I was like, Mm hmm. And I’ve been able to call this individuals relationships, every single one. And I feel really bad. I was like, This is because I did a reading for him. I was like, This is the person you need to be with. And he brought somebody over once. I was like, wait a minute, because it was the key difference was an age difference. I was like, that’s not it. And I did their engagement pictures. It wasn’t a tog refer at the time. And like two weeks after I did the pictures, they were broken up. I’m like, Why don’t y’all just listen. It’s the bad shit. It’s the bad stuff.
Sheila M 1:03:55
Listen, I trust me when I say no, cuz sometimes I like at something and I’m like, cool. I want to know that.
Patty Ryan Lee 1:04:02
Yeah. In case it does come and hit cuz the one that really stands out is you know, 17 we were in Alabama and looking to buy a house. I we my parents were looking to buy a house. I was dragged along. And we walked into this one house. And I was standing in the kitchen. I was talking to the realtor. I was like, Did anybody ever die on this house? Like there’s just this feeling right? Just like no, not that I’m aware of the last guy, the CIA agent or whatever. It’s like, Okay. Yeah, half later, that was the same spot My father died. Oh, that’s so freaky. exact spot. Oh, it’s so weird. So it’s like, holy shit. What was that? And then fast forward. You know, I’m really good with real estate now. So we go house hunting with my mom, and up here in Ohio. And I’m like, I walk into a house and I just had to say Alabama and we’re like, turn tail and go. We’re not getting this. She thought, because I told her I was like, there’s something wrong with this house. I don’t know if it’s the house, there’s just I just I don’t know, right? There’s just she thought I was just being, you know, like a stubborn 16 year old that just didn’t want to be in this space. I didn’t like the house was like, No, there was something wrong here.
Now she listens.
Sheila M 1:05:30
I was gonna say so. So with everything that like that. How, how did your family of origin respond to that? Like, are they on board? Are they just kind of like, Oh, it’s this weird thing that we like kind of acknowledged, but like, we don’t really talk about?
Patty Ryan Lee 1:05:47
Oh, no, no, now it’s, it’s, I mean, especially since that it’s been like, so what’s your feeling on this Patty? Like, what? What? What do you what do you think you know, what’s your gut tell you? And it’s like, because I was always raised to listen to your gut, listen to your gut. And experience told me otherwise. It was like, Okay, well, here’s my gut reaction. Well, no, not not now. Now doesn’t count as like, Okay. And now it’s okay. No, seriously, what do you feel like? Are you okay, this is good, like, with the cards, so I was just gonna be, and they’re very receptive to it. And I mean, my I didn’t learn this. I don’t learn the family secrets until after everybody dies. But great. my great grandparents on my mother’s side were masons, and they did seances, and all kinds of shit, and very, like supernatural kinds of things. And it’s like, you could have told me? Yeah, I like there’s an actual connection here. Right? Why? Yep. No, I don’t find anything out until after people die. And then it’s random on the phone. Like, Oh, you didn’t know that. NO
Sheila M 1:07:05
I know I love like, the way things are like mentioned, I’m like, excuse me.
Patty Ryan Lee 1:07:13
And they’re like, oh, that explains so much. Why did we talk about it?
Sheila M 1:07:17
Everybody acts like a weirdo, you know?
Patty Ryan Lee 1:07:19
Yeah. And then that’s the thing. Do you ever notice though, it’s like, you pick up on the details? Nobody else does. But the obvious shit is just like, yep, nope, not didn’t see it.
Sheila M 1:07:31
Yeah. Yeah, happens all the time. Um, so how does your How does your intuition kind of come into play in your business now?
Patty Ryan Lee 1:07:43
Oh, client red flags. Like I have those down to a science. It’s, I can tell within minutes of talking with someone. Nope. You’re gonna cost me this much money. You’re gonna cost me this much time. This is not going to be a successful project. And I want no part of it. And now I have the guts to actually say that in the past. But now it’s like, you know what? We’re not for each other. Thank you move on. But I’ve also really this year been diving into my y, which is also a framework, I’m introducing to the wellspring. To really get clear on that, to even head off that at the pass like this. I don’t even get it now. Like, people don’t even approach me now. So I don’t know if it’s something I’m putting out there. Or if I’m doing remarketing, right, like, no snow for you. Yeah, and then move on. Yes.
Sheila M 1:08:43
And you, you tested it, you did like a test of your whole process on me, which was really interesting. Because, again, and it’s funny how intuition works. Like I was doing all of this stuff that was in alignment with my why. I just didn’t know what my whyy was. But everything kind of like was circling around this one thing. And we had this whole conversation. And it was so eye opening to me, because it’s not again, the technology piece is amazing. And it’s super helpful. And like you said, it feels like insurance to my business. And the knowing my why was really interesting. And it was fascinating to me when you said like you’ve done all of this development over the years, and the people who were still in business who were still, you know, successful and doing other stuff, were the people who knew their why and kind of come back to it over and over and to me, now again, like you’re saying, it’s like the big stuff that you’re just like glazed over and I’m like, Ah, this is so important. Like how did I not? How did I not start out here? Like it is the undercurrent that runs under everything I do. And there is this GIF meme throughout everything. But I think I wasn’t noticing it so much.
Patty Ryan Lee 1:09:57
It’s like that one layer maybe of intuition that you’re not tapped into. It’s like, I’m learning to feel it in my body. But I’ve maybe always known it in business. And it’s like, not really, because I’m just now like, oh, it took me this long to realize this is what I want to do when I grew up, but but at the same time, I’ve been doing everything I wanted to do when I grew up. Yeah. And I’ve been making the choices based on my God. To follow through on those, I always want to be a teacher. And I’ve always been in positions where I was teaching. You know, I’ve always want to be an architect. I’m in a position now where I’m building things. Yep. Right. And it’s there. We just maybe don’t tap into it the same way. Because it’s not the same box. Like I’m not building. My plan was to build a question and centers. I’m not doing that. But I’m still building something. Right? Yeah. And understanding that the Why is very much in your past illuminates the path that you’ve been on. It’s like, suddenly, you can see that light that thread and go, okay. When did it veer off? When did it fork? That’s when I didn’t listen to my gut. Yes. Okay, so when I got back on that path, that’s when I was listening to my gut. And if you listen to your gut the whole time, I’ve never met anybody that did it. Maybe Oprah, I don’t know. But if you follow your gut the whole time, you go on the path that you need to and want to. And that’s, to me that’s been over this past year, the fascination that I’ve had, and apparently, it’s a 12th house perfection thing. I’m just learning. Thank you, Diana. And it’s and it’s Yeah. And I, my mind went off that path as well. So you have to put me back on it. I tend to my brain goes in one direction, my mouth goes in another because I write right I most of the work that I do is through writing. And it’s why we’re a Slack channel for the wellspring because I have to I have to focus it into the written word. it I love it so much. And
Sheila M 1:12:16
no, you’re we were just kind of talking about the why kind of running, running through everything and how it does. It really keeps you on track. I you know, it’s funny, like you were saying, Tanya, my friend, Tanya Gallagher, who is in Episode Two of the podcast, where like, she’s really the embodiment of the fool card, because she just has the ability to like surrender to all of these crazy things that I would have said no to Every single one, like an even l like being her friend, when she was going through a lot of these things. I was like, Are you crazy? Like, I was like, This is insane. You’re like that whole episode, if you haven’t listened to that episode you should listen through. And it’s a special kind of person like to be able to do that. Like I’m like, this is so in opposition to the wit to my temperament and the way that my personality is like, I just have such a hard time with this. I feel like now i have i’ve really evolved with that. And now I do have like, especially this year, and like if there’s, if there was every year that would turn everybody into the fool. It’s like 2020 because like, I mean, if you can’t surrender, you’re pretty much fucked this year.
Patty Ryan Lee 1:13:31
Like you can’t you have to just be like, all right, this is what we’re doing. There is such a sweet release in surrendering. Sometimes it’s like, it’s hard to do. It’s so difficult to do, because I’m a control freak. I want to control every aspect. But then you get to the point, it’s like, I have no control over this.
Sheila M 1:13:56
whether we think we have control or think we don’t have control, we have the same amount of control over everything. Like it doesn’t matter we always haveThe exact amount of control. I like that’s what I have to remind myself and I start getting like crazy because I do I can get like, I’m like I need to do this, this and this. You know what I mean? And then I’m like, Oh, yeah, stop that.
Patty Ryan Lee 1:14:17
Yep. Doom scrolling all Yeah, yeah, no, I want to control.
Sheila M 1:14:24
Okay, so this is really funny because I I always, um, I always pull cards from my deck. Like in the morning, some people it’s like, I feel like I have right away like, I just like get it, you know what I mean? And then some people I’m like, well, but they kind of do all of these. Like, even though the work is focused, they kind of do all of these different things. So I was I interviewed our friend scout a couple of weeks ago. And yeah, and when I went through, I was doing her thing I was like narrowing it down as I went. I was like, definitely all of these cards but I have to kind of narrow in, um, and especially when people do have like multiple things, you know, or have done multiple things. It can be, like very complicated to narrow it down. But I feel like I’m kind of coming around to it. And part of it, I think is. So when I talk about like what card you really embody, um, I love this. I have no idea how you’re gonna react to it, though. So the hanged one
Patty Ryan Lee 1:15:19
Really? Yes. Wow, that’s me.
Sheila M 1:15:22
Yeah, you know what I’m so okay, this is what I’m thinking with it. So okay, when I was pulling them out this morning, I was like, I really feel this because one of the things that has helped me a lot is having you as a person who is, you know, so an expert in tech, tell me, like, you’re saying, like, you don’t need a website, you know, right, you know, maybe you need this, maybe you need that tool. But you don’t necessarily need a website. And then when you have a website, it doesn’t have to be perfect. Like, it can write this, it’s more important, like the content that you’re putting on there, and that it’s easy to read, and that you can read it on mobile and on desktop, and all of that.
But what I think is really interesting is being in the wellspring, and working with you and just like talking to you about things. And that whole conversation about why was very much like shifted my perspective. And whenever I think of the hanged one, I really think of that sense of like being suspended and kind of like being in between and having that perspective shift, and adjusting to the perspective shift. And one of the things that I’ve seen as we have gone through this year, and being in your program from start to where it is now. And as it’s evolving, is, there’s always kind of work being done. But I do feel like you’re kind of holding yourself in suspension, and not like getting out ahead of yourself, you know what I mean? and being like, Hey, this is the work that I need to do in order to be ready for when I launched this again, which I’ll talk about in a few minutes. But, um, yes, but I do think that’s really interesting, because I really love this card. And sometimes when people when I pull it for people that are like, freaked out, and I’m like, I really love the hanged one because I do struggle sometimes even with what I do, where I spend a lot of time in, like other people’s perspective and like reading for other people. I can struggle to get that kind of perspective myself. And I feel like you are very analytical and you do that for other people. But I also feel like in a lot of ways you do it for yourself. Also.
Patty Ryan Lee 1:17:33
I’m trying. I love it. That’s fascinating to me. Yeah. Because when I when I see the hand when it’s pause, I’m like wait , but to hear your perspective of it? It’s like, yeah. Oh, that’s fascinating. I love it.
Sheila M 1:17:50
I read it that way, too. It really depends. And again, like I tell everybody, like,
Patty Ryan Lee 1:17:53
it’s great. Yeah, it depends,
Sheila M 1:17:54
like context of the reading and what other parts are coming up. You know, if I’m seeing like, the hand one, and the eight of wands reversed, like, I’m like, okay, that’s a pause, slow the hell down. Like, stop trying to do whatever, you know, but, and then the other card that really came up was the six of swords, which I think is really like fascinating, because at first I was like, why is this coming up? Um, and I can always trust like what’s coming up in the morning, because, as we were talking here, I, I see this card, I’m literally like, you’re always like, there’s a better way. Like, there’s a better way to do this. Hey, all you tech refugees. You know what I mean? Like, there’s a better way to do this, especially with what we were talking about today. I know, I promised that you would get the opportunity to bash on social media, and we haven’t even done that yet But I think it’s funny because like, from the very beginning, you were like, Ah, fuck, Facebook, fuck Instagram, do your own shit, you know. And I think like when it comes to the six of swords, it’s not just, okay, there’s this better way to do it, you’re like, here, there’s this better way to do this. Let me show you. Like, let me let me guide you towards this better way to do this. And you don’t need to know exactly where you’re going. But you need to have some parameters to start to narrow it down. And that’s what I always think about with the six of swords, and always brings that air energy as well. So So I always come
Patty Ryan Lee 1:19:28
I was just wondering if there would be swords in there because it’s like, yeah,
Sheila M 1:19:32
and you like and I think that’s what’s very funny because like, you are very cerebral and I can always kind of see you like working through it and, and having that perspective, which I think is so interesting. So does that resonate for you or what car do you kind of see yourself in?
Patty Ryan Lee 1:19:49
I it changes day to day. It’s like you know, today I’m a knight of swords. It’s usually a sword because I live in my head. But no, I love that because it again it goes to teaching and guiding. That’s what I’d love to do. Yeah. And I encourage others to pause. I encourage others to really think things through. And I’m trying to embody that myself. It’s like, you know, if I can’t do it, how can I tell other people to do it?
Sheila M 1:20:19
Yeah. And that’s what’s so interesting about about doing this, too, is like, some people and I have a lot of friends who read and a lot of the people I’ve had on our readers, and are always fascinated to see, like, Oh, I love people are externally seen and how they internally feel are like, often very different. And I think it’s true for me as well. Like, if I were to ask somebody else, which at some point, I’m going to, maybe for like, your anniversary, I think I’m gonna have somebody interview me. So we should all come back with a card.
Yes. Oh, my God.
It is funny too, because I think like, often, like we’re always our own worst critic, too. And so I think that sometimes having that like, outside perspective is very interesting. So,
Patty Ryan Lee 1:21:05
yes, in tech, I hear that a lot. It’s like, Oh, I’m tech illiterate. I’m this I’m that I’m like, this is a different language. This is a new skill. Tarot is the same thing. This is a whole other field. You’re gonna have a whole new perspective. I love this. Yeah, I love it. Yeah, I love it. No, yeah.
Sheila M 1:21:27
So, I know that in the new year, you’re going to be so not for a little bit now. So after the holidays, you’re going to be reopening the wellspring – how can people? How can people stay in touch with you? How can they work with you? How can they stay on top of it if they heard this? And they’re like, Yes, I need that in my life.
Patty Ryan Lee 1:21:47
So if this point, when this goes on the air, I am on anti social kick. I will not be on social media from November 1 to December 31. And so the only place you’ll be able to get ahold of me is thefierywell.com. and sign up for the newsletter, because newsletter gets first dibs on everything I do. And if you want access to the framework as it’s in development, and workshops that I’m doing, you can join the fount tier right now. And get in on that that doesn’t have direct access to me is like an insurance policy. But I’m there once a month, and we’ll workshop something live and walk you through from point A to B to Zed. Yeah. Yeah. So
Sheila M 1:22:39
I love that. And like I said, full endorsement. I’m not being paid, I pay Patty money. So I’m, I’m a huge fan of her work. And it has helped me immensely with my business. And also with my peace of mind this year. So thank you so much for taking the time too talk me tonight. This is so much fun. I mean, it’s always nice to talk to you.
Patty Ryan Lee 1:23:02
But oh my gosh, we could talk for hours and hours. I love it. Thank you so much for having me. I know. Yeah. And yeah, hello to your audience. And yes. Oh, I have a freebie for your audience. It’s okay. Yeah, I can’t remember the URL for it, but it will be very well done.
Sheila M 1:23:18
And I’ll put everything in the show notes as well. Yeah. So and what is the freebie
Patty Ryan Lee 1:23:24
It is 10 weeks of questions from the Tarot. So it’s Tuesday, I call it Tuesdays without Tarot. It’s my perspective on tarot readings. You get a question rather than asking one based on a card. And I don’t tell you what the card is. And you journal it. And it could be from a business perspective, personal perspective. But when you are your own personal brand, it’s probably for both.
Sheila M 1:23:48
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So I’ll include that in the show notes of today’s episode. And thank you so much.
Patty Ryan Lee 1:23:55
Hi. Oh, you’re very welcome. Thank you for having me. And anytime This was my first podcast, so much fun. Oh my god.
Sheila M 1:24:05
Thank you so much for listening to Living Tarot. If you love today’s episode, please leave us a review, and subscribe so that you never miss an episode. This helps us reach even more budding intuitives. Feel free to share on Instagram and tag me @StarSageSpirit and let me know what you learned what surprised you and what you’d like to hear even more of. As always, if you want to hear more about my courses, or book a reading with me, or for full episode show notes, you can head over to starsagespirit.com