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In episode 10 of Living Tarot, I interview Cate Mayer about her brand new initiative, Friends Vote Together. Born out of a conversation she had while phone banking for the upcoming election, Cate created Friends Vote Together to help people become not just more informed and engaged voters, but also informed and engaged citizens.In this episode, Cate and I spoke about how our friendship developed and how getting readings with me, keeping notes on them, and going back to them when ideas arise helped her find the confidence to take swift action on a brand new project. She created Friends Vote Together and had it up and running in just two weeks!! Friends Vote Together seeks to take the mystery out of voting and civic engagement. This intuitively created program helps increase civic engagement through pairing up with a buddy and suggesting weekly actions to take.
- Cate and I discuss how small steps can make a big difference especially when it comes to civic engagement.
- Cate also speaks about her experience of working with me through tarot and how our readings helped to give her direction and validation in career moves.
- We talk about how the buddy system helps with accountability.
- Cate speaks about how intuition let her to create this community action initiative and shows a great example of intuition in action.
- We also talk about how imperfect, messy action can lead to momentum that creates long term progress and channel frustration into collaborative action.
Connect with Sheila:
Book a Tarot or Reiki session at starsagepspirit.com or find her on Instagram instagram.com/starsagespirit.
Work with Cate:
Find more info about Cate’s project, Friends Vote Together, at instagram.com/friendsvotetogether on Instagram.
Transcript:
Sheila M 0:05
Welcome to Living Tarot. I’m your host Sheila Masterson. I’m a tarot reader and teacher, an energy healer and medium, and creator of Practical Tarot for Everyday Intuitives. Each week on this podcast, I’ll share my own experience of embracing and growing intuition and interview guests about how they heard the call of intuition, embraced the adventure, and embodied the tarot along the way. Join us and learn how you can stop second guessing, empower yourself through intuition and live intentionally with the tarot.
Today on the podcast, it is my great pleasure to welcome my friend Cate Mayer. Cate is the founder of Friends Vote Together a movement reshaping the approach and die lug around civic engagement and voting. The mission of Friends Vote Together is to increase voter turnout by making ongoing civic action, easy and engaging a community and conversation to become not only educated and informed voters, but educated and informed citizens. Over the last 15 years as a dedicated executive strategist, events leader, and campaign manager, Cate has led complex projects, events and organizational and business development strategies across diverse corporate and nonprofit landscapes. throughout her life, her desire has been to further the belief that if we continue to connect with people, and have meaningful conversations, we will continue to see the effects of change. Cate has traveled to 27 countries, lived on three continents and longs for the days when she can get back on the road to exploring and connecting with people all over the world. Based in Charleston, South Carolina, Cate loves cooking from her heart without a recipe, live music, reading intricate murder mysteries and is currently spending a lot of her time trying to keep her quarantine garden and half houseplant comp collection alive. So in today’s conversation, Cate and I really talk about what it looks like to lead from your heart. And to be a person who can kind of channel that king of swords kind of energy, where you can give direct action steps to people, and really lead the way towards greater civic engagement, and how you can break that down into very manageable and small pieces. So many people right now especially are feeling very paralyzed. They want to do something, they don’t know what steps to take to move forward. And that is really where our conversation begins today, and how Cate has kind of formed this incredible organization to really help direct people’s energy, especially with this upcoming election in the United States. So let’s dive right in.
All right, I’m so excited, Cate, I’m so excited that you’re here. today. I’m here with my friend, Cate Mayer. And Cate, tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do in this world now.
Cate Mayer 3:26
Hey, friend, how are ya? Thanks for having me on today. I’m so excited. Um, ironically, I was doing some research and looking back for something in my email on my calendar and a year ago exactly your this week, we met through one of our mutual friends. How crazy is that we’re here a year later to the day almost.
Sheila M 3:51
I can’t believe it’s been a year. Like it blows my mind because I feel like 2020 in particular has been kind of a paradox of silence. Feeling like the longest and slowest year ever? And also like I blinked my eyes and suddenly it’s August.
Cate Mayer 4:08
no, I agree. I agree. I saw it. And I was like, it has to have been two years ago, three years ago. But now it was exactly almost a year ago to the day September 14. So I love it. I mean, you and I say this all the time, trust the timing of your life. You know, and it’s almost I felt serendipitous that we’re having this conversation almost exactly a year later. I love it. I’m very excited. Yeah, I will also say, you know, I’m a little nervous. I know you’re gonna guide me through this, but I was totally anti podcast until before we went into quarantine. And you know, my what my commute to work used to be three minutes if I got the red light and two minutes if I didn’t, and I never had time to listen to a podcast in cars, which a lot of my friends would do on their commutes to work and I just, I had tried so many times over the course of years to get into them and to understand and and you know, Listen to all of these amazing stories and people that were putting this information out there. I just never got into it. And ironically, I was driving back from a work trip from Charlotte back to Charleston, South Carolina right before COVID, right for under lockdown. And a co worker of mine who’s like, all things podcast, basically forced me to listen to three hours of podcasts on the way back. And I didn’t want to tell him this at the time, but I was like, I really enjoy this. This is cool. This is like I was so into it. And so I never thought that I would be on a podcast. But now here we are, but I’ve gotten I’ve gotten into a bunch of podcasts over the last couple months. You know, walking through the neighborhood and just being at home and working at home now. And I am so excited to be on this moon but I’m more excited that you have launched those podcasts and are sharing your amazingness out to the world because the world needs more of you out there.
Sheila M 5:54
You’re so sweet. I’m so excited to and funny. Like you said I think I was really resistant. To podcasts for a long time, but I’ve always loved storytelling and especially, you know, I love to read and I love reading blogs and books and all kinds of stuff. But I always felt like even writing my blog, like there was some part of my voice that was missing. And there’s something that comes with having these kind of unfiltered conversations that I think brings a deeper understanding and a deeper connection for people that is missing a little bit when when you’re talking about like writing and reading things. And so that’s part of the reason why I wanted to do this. And I think it’s funny, like you said, because I think I was a little bit resistant in the beginning as well.
Cate Mayer 6:43
So I get it. I totally I could not agree with you more. And I also think, you know, the storytelling especially Have you listened to Trevor Noah’s book, podcast, if you haven’t, definitely. Yeah. So I had read the book a couple years ago, and I thought it was phenomenal. You know, I could feel his words and emotions through through his writing, but then listening it listening to it on the podcast and, um, audio was so different and you’re right, you get such a different emotive experience and you hear the story so differently. And I think it’s so important especially in this moment in time where we are, where we all are kind of, you know, reaching beyond our comfort zones and learning and trying to think differently and then narrative of how we talk and hearing that vocally is such an A important experience to keep learning but also really kind of pushes you to think and feel things differently than when you read them. You know, in a book or in a blog or Instagram or wherever it may be.
Sheila M 7:50
And it’s our it’s our first experience you know, when when you’re a child people people read to you you know, they like sit down, they tell you stories, you know, for for generating stories were passed down just by word of mouth. So there is kind of that that storytelling piece but even just, you know, I think even reading aloud like one of the things, this is so corny, but one of the things that my partner and I have been doing during quarantine is having, like, storytime. So we have been reading a book and we’ll take turns reading a chapter out loud.
Cate Mayer 8:23
Oh, that’s so fun. I love that.
Sheila M 8:25
Yeah. And it’s been unlike I literally haven’thad somebody like, read to me since I was a child. Yeah, you know, and I’m like, why don’t we stop doing that? It’s great.
Cate Mayer 8:36
or reading with someone, right? Yeah. That’s a great idea. Yeah. Do not.
Sheila M 8:43
Yeah, seriously, I’m like I’m doing like a best friend storytime or something. Totally. It’s
Cate Mayer 8:48
actually funny. You said that I was talking to a friend of mine this morning and her two kids. The older the little boy every Sunday. He has family story out. And so a different family member from her and her husband family jump on on zoom on Sunday and they tell him a story in such a great and she’s like, I gotta run, we have family story our Oh, we were talking earlier, but it’s such a great idea. And I think brilliant, you know, as you know, we could go down a rabbit hole and probably do 10 years of podcasts of all of the negative that came out of COVID I think things like that are one of the beauties and joys that came out of this moment. Um, you know, all of us have these stories and have these things that we weren’t doing before that are connecting us with people and kind of bringing us back to the root of, you know, who we really are and what brings us joy and happiness, right and connecting with people. So yeah, absolutely. But I digress.
Sheila M 9:52
So, so tell us a little bit more about what you’re up to now what you bring to the world.
Cate Mayer 9:59
Oh my godness, what am I up to? What am I not up to every day I come up with, with a new idea of something I want to do and capture and I it’s funny, it’s actually this goes exactly back to relating to and having conversations. I’ve gotten into this thing where I’m, you know, my girlfriends and I were on a group chat and it’s, you know, you couldn’t look away for an hour and you come back and it’s like 310 text messages back and forth having a conversation on Sundays, and I’ve gotten into this, this vibe of sending these video messages when I have things like, you know, some are not so brilliant, I’ll be honest about it. Some are very out there ideas of things and how we can you know, like I just say save the world. But, um, you know, we’ve been, I’ve been sending these via video and I it’s been so cool, because then my friends will send little videos back and forth. And it’s just another way to connect with each other. So I’m, again, total side tangent, but, um, what have I been up to? I have been capturing a moment An idea that I had just about 15 days ago to really, you know, the cut, let me kind of just tell you where where the concept came from, um, I left my position working for a company earlier this year and pre COVID was supposed to do some traveling comeback, had some things lined up to jump off into and of course, COVID hit and everything turned on a dime. So it was kind of in this moment of not sure what was next and kind of just listening to my intuition and listening to those around me in terms of fate trying to figure it all out. And I really dove into some volunteer opportunities around getting people registered to vote and really looking at the statistics of how many people were eligible and registered and didn’t turn out and vote in 2016 and then 2018 primaries, and furthermore, how many people are eligible to vote and not registered? It was eye opening, and just alarm And knowing that we’re in this moment that, you know, if we really want to see change, and if we really want to get back to a new normal and out of quarantine, and you know, really unpack everything that is going on in our world, you know, change needs to happen. And so I dove in headfirst and doing some volunteering with a bunch of organizations and phone banking texts, making a lot of writing, doing some research for them.
As it relates to voter turnout, and I just, you know, I had this kind of study, we’re going to talk about intuition, but this gut feeling in this like, pits in my stomach that there was something more that I wanted it needed to be doing, but I wasn’t really sure what it was and how that was going to come about. And so I remember very clearly it was national vote by mail day, and I was phone banking for North Carolina, and I called a woman named Beth in Raleigh, and I got her on the phone and I had asked her, you know, She was registered to vote. And was she looking forward to voting? And she said, Yeah, my friends and I, we don’t really vote. She hadn’t voted in a couple election cycles. We’re just going to sit this year out. And I said, Oh, Beth, no, we’re not sitting this year out. And we had a really good conversation about the importance of voting and what it meant and the history of voting, and by the end of the call, we got her online to register. And she had said to me, before we hung up, if I had a friend like you, I probably would have voted earlier in the past election cycles. And I remember hanging up from that call, and feeling you know, instantaneously that I wanted to go out into the world and find all the Beths and save all the best and get every Beth registered and get them to the polls. And you know, realistically knowing that that was not possible and that it was going to take a village to find all the Beths, but really kind of looking at that as the moment of I have to do more and I am being called to do more than just you Making these calls. And then the next day I was on having a conversation with one of my friends. And she had mentioned how, you know, she really wanted to get more involved, but she didn’t really know what to do. There were all of these call to action opportunities. And it was just it felt so overwhelming. And so really the coupling of those two conversations was the concept of the movement, the friends vote, friends vote together movement. And we launched a week ago this past Friday. And it’s been phenomenal. And really the concept of the movement is is twofold. One is to connect people in this time where we aren’t connected. We aren’t having conversations, we’re not talking to our friends and family as we would in a normal year and in a normal election year. And also a call to action that it is going to take all of us to do a little bit and a little bit more than what we’re doing day to day and every week in order for us to see the change that we need and we so desperately want And so the movement really acknowledges that everyone has a lot going on. We have parents that are trying to figure out how schooling is going to look how their work schedule, we’re going to look how do they go to the grocery store, without the kids, but no one to take care of the kids. Everyone is trying so hard to do their best. And there is so much work to be done coupled with misinformation and endless opportunities and calls to action being thrown at them. And so what we do is we’re an online driven campaign. That is basically the best way I like to describe it. As I think about it, the buddy system needs political action. And so by joining the campaign in the movement, you and a buddy agree to do one small action every week from now until the election that gets you civically engaged and educated and becoming a more educated and informed voter. And the caveat or the real piece that that we provide is that we give you five easy action items. Every week that you and your buddy can do. They range anywhere from this coming week to we’ve got take the census which is five minutes to signing up and doing postcard in which is a 30-45 minute activity we provide you with the amount of time each one takes we have done all of the activities, we’ve vetted them. So that we know that we’re not asking you to sign up to do something that is not going to have any impact or difference. And we provide you the resources, we give you the link, we make it easy and dummy proof for you to be able to participate. And the other thing is we really try to think about everyone and making this an inclusive community. So what is something that a mom can do or dad can do with their children? Last week, we had a really cool podcast that was on the 19th amendment. This week, we’re talking about postcards with kids. So having your children put on the stamps or have them write the addresses or decorate the postcards really making it more of a an all inclusive activity. And, yeah, it’s really fun. Um, the coolest thing in the last week too, is been, you know, we’ve had so many people reach out to us with additional opportunities that we didn’t even know were out there. And so we’re taking the time to vet them to make sure that they are legit and making sure that they’re easy. We don’t want to provide any very hard multiple step actions that are just going to confuse people. That’s kind of the opposite of what we’re trying to do. And we’re working with some partners now that we’re going to be releasing in the next couple of weeks. Some partnerships in terms of phone banking and text banking, that are mutually aligned in terms of work that they’re doing, and we’re doing to really, you know, think of this as a community. And I think, you know, one thing that I found in all my research and launching this is there are a lot of organizations and a lot of people out there that are competing to do the same thing and I use the word competing because they they’re competing against each other to get registered. To vote. And I think that is the exact opposite of what number one we need to be doing as a society right now we need to be working together. But also if, if we’re all out there to get people to register to vote, or we’re all out there to get voters to turn out or educate, inform voters, let’s do this together. I mean, we’re only as good as our as the person next to us working on this and let’s learn from each other and build upon each other. There’s no need for competition and recreating the wheel. And that’s, that’s really what we’re about and and creating this community of friendsat the end of the day.
Sheila M 18:33
I love that because you’re speaking to a couple different things here too, which I think, you know, between COVID and between a lot of the social justice unrest that has been going on throughout the country over the past couple of months. More people I think than ever before have really been fired up to get involved and frankly, with everything going on with COVID More people have maybe had time to as well. So I love that you’re trying to find these kind of bite sized ways for people to, to get involved. So yeah, I love kind of all the background that you gave on that. But can you I think for some people it’s hard to conceptualize, you know, they hear you talk about this, you sound like you know exactly what you’re talking about what you’re doing. What was the process, like kind of getting around to this, like, Where did you come from? before you started this? Yeah, I know,
Cate Mayer 19:36
Great question. And and I think one thing that we you know, we, we say this and I and I’m very clear, I am not an expert. I have not been doing this work for many years. And part of what we are doing is elevating and amplifying the voices of those that have been doing the work for years and years and years and in everything that we provide online in terms have our content, our research our suggested talking points, we always include a section at the end with our sources and who we use or who we spoke with. I think it’s important for us to acknowledge that, you know, like I said, we’re all in this together. But we want you to know that we are not the experts by any means, and that we’re here to elevate and amplify the voices and the work of those that are doing much more than we are doing, and those that we use to inform the content that we share. And so that’s, you know, that’s something that’s really important to us is to not claim these sometimes very startling and sad statistics, but, you know, this is the work of a lot of people coming together to bring this to light. How did this come about? So quick question, a lot of sleepless nights. A lot of sleepless nights and Reese’s Peanut Butter Cups. That is the Exact Match making those happen.
Sheila M 21:02
Like a spell you’re working your own version of a spell there.
Cate Mayer 21:06
I saw news I have literally gone with four to five Reese’s Peanut Butter Cups and nothing else. Is there time. It’s so not right. But, um, so how this came about, it’s actually mind boggling on now that we’ve launched on the other side of it. From the moment I had that conversation with Beth, to the moment that we went live on Instagram was 11 days. And I I think about it now and, uh, yeah, I know, and it’s, it’s kind of crazy to think about, and we’re just one weekend now from launching, um, in terms of taking this, this live. I think, you know, one of the greatest things that and I’m not taking credit for this, but one of the greatest things that I did was in those 11 days, I gathered a group of 25 friends that I knew had experience from plunder. And creating documentaries to a good friend that runs a very public foundation to a friend that quit her job in 2008. left everything behind to go work for an office, she got an opportunity to work on Obama’s first campaign. And she basically just took the leap and did it and has just been my hero in terms of her political activism, and what she’s done between before 2008, but really since 2008, and kind of been my guiding light and getting advice from her and, you know, talking to all these people and pitching the idea, and the evolution of what we’ve launched is very much the same, but very different than the original concept. I had, at some point, the original, you know, my background comes from operations and building businesses, and thinking about how we can build and leverage and so you know, originally the concept was an activation where everyone signs up, they fill out a form, they get an automated email Then they get a badge and you put it online. And, you know, one of one of my friends I was talking to she, this was one of the best pieces of advice I got. She goes, you have to think of this as a crisis right now. And we have at this time 80 something days to get to the election. We don’t have time to build a business, we have to have boots on the ground and get this out, though, the longer you take to to launch this, the less impact we’re gonna have. And also people your whole concept of creating this is making this easy, people don’t have time to sign up for stuff right now. People don’t want another email in their inbox. People don’t want to do more than they can’t it’s not that they don’t want to they physically cannot do more than what they’re doing right now. Yeah. So it was just, you know, it was like from from day one, I think, you know, one of the concepts was not to make this to people had suggested making it kind of a newsletter that you get every week and this is your auctions and I was very against that because on a good day and granted I’m You know, probably probably subscribed to every possible mailing list that is out there right now. Um, you know, I get some days of hundreds of emails, and I just I can’t, it’s like, I cannot manage everything that comes into my inbox. And so I’m very fortunate and privileged not to have, you know, as much on my plate as some people do. And so the idea and concept to add one more thing for them to weed through and find and read was something I didn’t want to do. And I also wanted to make it easy, but an opportunity for them to do it on their time and their schedule when they could find it online and do what works for them.
Sheila M 24:37
Yeah. So one of the What I really like about what you just said, If I can just pause you for a second. And I really like that you’re talking about making this like quick and actionable. Because, like you said, one of the things that I think I’ve heard from a lot of people is how I want to do something and I don’t know what to do and instead of spending my energy A thing that would actually help, I just feel like I’m doing, I’m spending my energy trying to figure out what the right you know, quote unquote, right thing to do is. And I think that there is kind of this fallacy that exists out there, that when it comes to intuition or following something that’s intuitively guided, that it’s like perfect or something. And I think that this is the perfect example of doing something that is quick and dirty and necessary, and it doesn’t matter if it is perfect, so to speak. Yep, it matters that it is useful. And I think that’s really cool.
Cate Mayer 25:37
That’s such a great point. And and something I really struggled with, I mean, we’ve known each other long enough know that, that you know, that I’m a perfectionist, and it’s like, you know, one I dotted incorrectly is like, I can’t sleep at night, but I think you made a really good point is that I I kind of accepted that. This was something and we can talk a little bit about how I got to this feeling but you know, this was something I knew I had to do and I had to create and I had to put out there. And I had to be vulnerable. And I had to kind of put my perfectionism hat on the back, you know, the back of the closet for now and say, Okay, this is urgent, this is needed, this is necessary, and it’s not going to be perfect. And there’s going to be a typo. There’s going to be a grammar error here in there. And you know, the content may be too much one day and too little another day or may not be explained well enough. The colors might not be 100% perfect, but I don’t have time. Yeah, no one has time to figure that out. Right now. We need to just kind of dive in and trust and hope and, you know, like you said, there’s there’s that battle of making things perfect and kind of just taking the leap and trusting and hoping and you know, I’ve said this over the course of the week is if we reach 200 people if we reach 20 people and 20 people are doing one small action every week. Now until the election, I feel like this was a massive success. I feel that if we’ve changed people’s mindset in terms of how to be active, whether it’s around an election, whether it’s around, volunteering in your community, whatever that is, how information is shared, that feels like we have made an impact, it’s not the number of likes that we’re getting on Instagram, it’s, you know, it’s not, oh my gosh, this person follows me now or this person. Yeah, those things would be great. And that will obviously help our growth and our numbers, but it’s about changing lives. And it’s about getting people educated. I think last week, um, I was on one of our another account on Instagram, and they posted a picture. And their subject was, you know, it was around the DNC, and it was, you know, I can’t remember what it was, but the call to action was so what are you guys doing this week, basically, asking their followers what their options were this week and I was reading through the subject of captions from people This one woman had written I want to get to work, but I don’t know what I’m supposed to do. And it was just like a light bulb. I messaged her immediately I said, Come over our site, you know, this is what we do. We provide you these actions. You know, these are ideas, we want you to get creative. We want you to do what works for you. If you have 10 hours a week, and you want to follow me for 10 hours, go for it, if you’re into a campaign and into a candidate, and you want to put all your time and effort behind that, we support you, but we want to at least provide you that framework to get to get started. And she came over and joined us and sent me a message at the end of this week. And she said, You know, this is exactly what I’ve been looking for. Because I feel so lost. There’s so much out there and I know it’s all worthy, but I don’t I don’t even know where to start, like this such a great launching point for me to be civically active and engaged and, and not for me, I was like, Okay, that’s it. I’m not going to be done. I’ve got you know, we got two and a half months to go but I was like, okay, I’ve done my work, you know, like that is exactly what the purpose of this is.
Sheila M 29:01
Hey there, I want you to be the first to know that I am offering a free training Tarot l for Real Life – Get Your Shit Together with the Tarot on Sunday, September 20, 2020 at 12pm eastern time, this workshop is extremely powerful. It talks about the top mistakes that new Tarot readers make, will cover the neuroscience of Tarot and how it can stop the anxiety cycle, and the exact steps to follow to start reading effectively and efficiently for yourself. This is where the spirituality of the Tarot meets real life situations. And my goal is to have you leave that workshop, either with a reboot to your tarot reading or if you’re a brand new beginner with a good idea of how to get started. So you can sign up for that free workshop in the show notes today or if you already know that you are really interested in signing up for a tarot course. I will be opening the doors for my Tarot course for the last time for 2020 of course. It’s called Practical Tarot for Everyday Intuitives. It is a seven week Tarot course that takes you from brand new beginner to tarot reading Pro, and helps you learn how to bring that practice into real life, how to use the Tarot to help you make complex decisions effortlessly. So if that sounds good to you, you can sign up for the waitlist in the show notes today.
You’re speaking to something that I think is really important as well which sometimes because we’re so used to like the Instagram way which is like I’m an influencer again like the perfectionism comes in now with that
Cate Mayer 30:49
I hate that word, but yeah, I was like, I literally spent nights googling, like, what can I say instead of influencer and I haven’t come up But anything
Sheila M 31:01
I’m the same way I have like a whole group of words that I hate, but it’s, it’s really funny to me because I think that, you know, one of the things that I learned, like from early on with my business because I was very brick and mortar at the beginning, you know, I was seeing a lot of people. Yeah. And I was like, I was looking at all these people who are, you know, considered successful, you know, and they have, you know, thousands of followers or hundreds of thousands of followers and I was listening to a podcast, of course, um, and I can’t remember exactly who it was. But basically, she was talking about having the same revelation that she didn’t need 1000 customers she needed like 100 customers, and that like she was getting so distracted by all these metrics that didn’t really matter. And like you’re saying, I think it’s very important because I also think that with what you’re doing, it’s not necessarily going to be this big, huge Social media explosion, you know, I think it’s going to be one of those things get shared and the people were like, holy shit, this is really helpful. Like, no, I, I just I didn’t know which actions to take. Um, so I love that you’re speaking to that a little bit. So yeah, I think the
Cate Mayer 32:18
other thing I just want to mention too, that also is, you know, I’m like I said, I, I was very much I’m in the first couple days of building this and in how do I check analytics and how do I see you know, who’s sharing what and how do I do this and how do I, I you know, I had all these stats that I wanted the age demographic, where people what these people were coming from, you know, how did how did they find us all this kind of, I had this whole metric vision right and, and scrapped it all, ah, very good advice of some friends of just like, get this out there. You know, build the momentum, build the movement, get people to trust you and on board and then you can build the metrics. problem there. And I did put in an analytics system this week. You know, it’s not perfect. I’m learning all this as I go, I have no idea what half of what I’m tracking is, but that’s all right. The numbers are going off. That’s all that matters. I’m like, you know, what’s the trending upward? That’s all. That’s all that I need to know. But one thing that was really interesting, and I think this goes to the second point of this, this movement, and I feel is almost as equally if not more important, is building this community, right? And building this sense of togetherness, and how how we really it’s really a grassroots movement. You know, I found several friends that I asked to be founding friends and said, Okay, I need you guys. Are you on board? Or do you want to be part of this? Give me your advice. What do you think they invited their friends to be part of the buddy system, who then invited their friends and one thing that I noticed this week in terms of our followers, and again, for me, it’s not the number of followers it’s, it’s, it’s quality versus quantity, right? Like we could have 2000 followers and they’re all you know, Fake, you know, whatever they are, I don’t know what the actual term is that they call them fake people. Yeah, there’s, there’s a term for that asked me two weeks, I’ll probably know they’re not today, you know, but I looked at the analytics and of our followers, we are at 47%. This was as of two days ago, of people that are following us that didn’t have a tie to someone else, meaning someone found us on Instagram. And they’re not a friend of yours. They’re not a friend of another person that’s following us. And that’s huge. 47% that means almost half of our following, found us organically through another account, through our hashtags through googling friends, whatever it may be, and that was really eye opening to me in terms of this not just being a grassroots movement that’s, you know, kind of circling amongst our group of friends that goes to another group, which is happening at the same time. It’s kind of this symbiotic thing that’s happening and so that was really cool because recruiting reading this community of people who are obviously looking for a sense of community and and help great and that’s, that’s awesome, that’s awesome for me to go to bed at night, those nights I do go to bed because there’s not many these days feeling like that I’ve created that, um, which is cool.
Sheila M 35:19
I love that so much. Um, so I think for you know, for people who maybe struggle a little bit when when these ideas come in for them, and don’t really know how to trust that, have you Have you always been a person that could trust your intuition, kind of what is your background been with with trusting that kind of intervals?
Cate Mayer 35:42
Yeah, you know, it’s funny. I was thinking about this word intuition and kind of my, my journey with it right and i i have very, very vivid moments in my past that I absolutely listened and followed my intuition. But I don’t think that I knew that’s what I was doing at the time. I remember visiting Dickinson college where I went for undergrad on Pennsylvania, amazing college, by the way, anyone out there that’s, that’s looking. And I remember walking on campus with my mom and I turned to her and I said, I’m going to college here. She was like, well, we should probably apply and see if you get in first. I was like, No, I’m going there. I’m going and she was like, Okay. And then when I moved to New York, right after college, and a common theme of my life, which you know, is I just kind of do things and take the leap of hope. But I moved to New York after college without a job without a place to live and just knew I was gonna figure it out. Which sounds crazy, but it happened. And I walked into this apartment complex that I was looking to live and I was waiting in the lobby, and this friend of mine, who was a broker who’s helping me find apartments, I turned to him and I said, Ari, I’m going to live here. Let’s just to sign a lease looks like you haven’t even seen the apartment and I was like, No, no, I’m gonna live in this building. And he was like it. He was he was baffled. He had no idea what to say. And I look back at those moments, and, you know, they were huge life decisions where you go to college where you live, and there was a couple others. And and now, you know, in retrospect I look at it and that’s absolutely, you know, kind of following my intuition and following my gut in terms of what felt right and what was what I was meant to be. You know, and I’m totally a research nerd, in fact, over fiction and so of course, like, you know, I looked up the word intuition and, and that’s really what intuition is, right? It’s this process where, you know, our brain uses past experiences in our lives and things that we’ve been through and looks at them as cues in terms of like, you know, from ourselves in our environment to make decisions, which is for me, so fascinating because I look at life now. And I think, you know, as I’ve grown I definitely always had that feeling of listening to my intuition, but I think I’ve I really, you know, just using those two examples, I’ve obviously had past experiences in my life that that I’ve leaned on in terms of having listened to my intuition. I think something that shifted is when I was younger, and it could be just an age thing or being naive is that, you know, I don’t really think I knew what, what that meant back then. And as I’ve grown up, I think, I mean, I think some people their intuition is very quiet, right? And they have a really hard time hearing it and kind of tapping in and tuning in. I’m the exact opposite. Mine is loud as day it is a frickin earthquake like it is there. I hear it, but I don’t necessarily I push it away. I suppress it right. And I think what I’ve worked on over the last couple years and you and I have had a lot of conversations and work through is really listening to it and tuning into it and not? Not, you know, not asking the real questions of like, well, but what if this but what about and really just kind of tapping into that and saying, okay, it hasn’t led me astray. Most times, there are a few times it has, um, what happens if I tap into it? Like, what would it look like if I did this? Or I did that? How would I feel? And really kind of suppressing the doubt and the question and the reality, the reality of what comes around sometimes with listening to your intuition, leaving my job in the middle of a recession, and COVID is, is a great, one of my best friends, our mutual friend called me and I love her to death. She was like, What are you doing? And I was like, I’m listening to my intuition. And, of course, she understood what I was saying, but I you know, it was one of those moments where most people, you know, sure, it’s taking a risk. It’s not normal. Safe decision, I feel very fortunate and very privileged and very, very, very lucky to be in the opportunity and the space to be able to have done that. And I recognize that that’s also driven me a lot to why I feel this need and want more want the need to give my time back to other people right now because I know that I’m very lucky to have that opportunity. Yeah. And I think you know, you and I together, have worked Now, obviously, a year ago. We just hit our should we send each other an anniversary gift. What is one year?
Sheila M 40:32
One year? I think it’s the paper anniversary. Perfect.
Cate Mayer 40:38
Let’s support the US post office. I’ll send you a letter.
Sheila M 40:43
Perfect.
Cate Mayer 40:44
I have some love stamps on here. But I think one thing that’s been so great and working together and really kind of on this journey together is not asking the traditional questions. I think that many people are used to asking or themselves or their friends when it comes to following your intuition and I think that’s, that’s probably what’s led me astray in the past and has prevented me from from listening to this shouting voice in my gut. But really asking positive reinforcing questions like what would it look like if this what would it look like if that and and really thinking through it and realizing that it’s not so scary and it kind of looks good if I jump and do this right and i think you have such an ability to frame it in a way that is supportive, that triggers and a really good way people to to ask questions of themselves that really you make me do the work and i and i mean that with love, like you’ve made me do a lot of like really interesting work and thinking through things in the way that you’ve asked them and in a way that you’re positioned them that I haven’t gotten from other people.
Sheila M 41:59
I love that you’re Saying that too, because one of the things that I really strive to do, because I think there’s this traditional idea of Tarot as fortune telling, which Yes, I mean, sure, there are people who use it exclusively as fortune telling, but what I’ve learned from being a person who generally knows the right answer, like is that when you just tell people the answer, it robs them of the the ability to truly know it, first of all, so like, they don’t, it doesn’t feel true. And you know, it. They don’t, their brain can’t make it as real as what they’ve experienced because they haven’t had the experience of realizing it’s true. You know, they have the experience of someone telling them that it’s true. And so, what I experienced so much in Sessions is people who come in with that idea, Sheila, tell me, the answer helped me figure out what to do Tell me what to do. Um, but really what I found is way more helpful is to ask questions and to look at different options because sometimes we’re so attached to a certain outcome that we are missing the reasons why it might not be the right outcome. And like, I’m just going to use relationship stuff because it’s easy to talk about that. But it’s true with career stuff, like, like we have seen working together, as well. But with relationships, you know, you can think that someone is, you know, you’re just like in that stage where you’re just so in love and like, you can’t imagine anything being wrong. But when we, when we look at the reading, we see that there’s some like in compatibility with the way that you communicate or the way that energy is exchanged between the two of you. And right now, it’s not a big deal, but when you multiply that by a lifetime It’s a really fucking big deal. So I think what’s really important is to, to have these these conversations with clients who come in about all of the possibilities that are open. And one of the things that I loved about working with you is that first of all, you are very multi talented, and but you were kind of like, open, you know, and I think you knew it was time to do something different, but it was really hard for you to figure out what the next step was, and, and I can relate, you know, to toot our horn, we’re multi talented and multi passionate people and so,
Cate Mayer 44:43
But you also came from the same background, you were in this corporate job and you took the leap as well and you were just kind of like, I’m gonna, I’m gonna do this, you know.
Sheila M 44:52
Exactly. And, and, you know, I think it can be really difficult when you don’t have that straight line. Fast forward like you do when you’re inside of a corporate organization. And because that’s what we all grow up with, you know, we all go up through school and you follow the grades and then you graduate from school and you either get a job or you go to college, and then maybe for the career you want, you get a master’s degree, or whatever it is, there’s kind of like, this whole prescribed path. And then even beyond that, there’s then you get married, and then you have kids, and like, yeah, there’s no real room for variance and one of the things that I really loved about working with you was that you came in and you were like, hey, there’s like 20 different things that I’m interested in. And I don’t know where to focus my energy and like, Can we just kind of like, look at everything, you know, and, and I think that, like you said, sometimes intuition isn’t just like giving you the path forward. It’s giving you like a no to where you are and then it’s Your job to do the work in like excavating and creating to try to figure out what that looks like.
Cate Mayer 46:07
Totally agree totally agree. It’s interesting I was I, you know, I keep notes of all of our conversations and like our all the work that I’ve done, but you’ve kind of the homework, if you will, that you’ve offered my opinion, I think something that you said multiple times in our conversations and really I think is important for people to know it shifted my mindset and I hope that it will shift others is you kept saying to me imagine someone else telling you this story. So whether it was that wonderful relationship that we worked through together, and whether is it too early in the day to open the wine anyway, maybe tequila at this point.
There was that, um, you know, whether it was my career shift, it was some you know, friends and stuff that I was working through relationships up. You said, Imagine someone else talking You the story and that was it was so eye opening for me. Um, as cliche as that phrase is, isn’t that, you know, I think we our own our own worst enemies and our own we make ourselves a victim right? Like, what if this was someone else’s story what would your reaction be right? What if someone else was telling you that they were going to leave their job to go figure out what was next or they were going to follow their intuition in creating something that they knew was going to help people but they didn’t know exactly what that was, you know, what, what would your reaction to that be? And I think we tell ourselves those stories, more, you know, kind of protecting ourselves in a way where we’re, we’re negative to each other, you know, or to ourselves, I should say, you know, we have this negative while at 30. I should be married and so I can’t leave my job because I have to get married and then by 35, it’s like, No fucking way. Like, put all of that aside. Like, that’s just a whole again, a whole nother year of podcasts. down. But I think you know, that is something that really kind of helped me on this journey and I hope others will take away from it is imagine someone else telling the story. What would your what would your reaction be? What would your what would your narrative be with them and make that narrative with yourself? You know, and on it, whether it’s good or bad have that narrative with yourself as you would it with someone else’s story?
Sheila M 48:25
Yeah. And it removes so much of the judgment too, I think because we can be so judgmental towards our own experience. And, and even like I say, all the time, if, if all the stuff that happens to me wasn’t happening to me, I wouldn’t believe it. Like if it wasn’t happening to me regularly. Even in the beginning, I think, in my experience, you know, I had these experiences and and I always had this stuff that I understood, but I as a kid, I didn’t have the context to really know what was going on? Or that it was different than anybody else’s experience. But like, no, the older you get and the more you have the language and the understanding and the questions to ask other people, the more sense it all starts to make, and the more you can kind of untangle what you personally think and how you personally feel, rather than the expectations that have been placed on you, by family, by yourself by the social economy. Yeah, that you grow up in. And I do think it’s really interesting and kind of reclaiming personal agency to actually start to to learn what that looks like and feels like in your body and you bring up such an interesting point about how sometimes it, it can take you to something that is quote unquote, that will say bad or less You know, feels like not the right decision. But also I’ve learned a lot about myself in that. I won’t believe something until it goes wrong. So for example, like, I could, especially when it comes to, like, you know, something I really want so like if it was a job and like, my intuition was like, This isn’t the right job. This isn’t the right job. I probably wouldn’t listen to it even though I know that that’s true. And, or I might get the impulse like, yeah, try this and still know that it’s going to be like kind of a mess. I totally, I mean, I think that anyway, so it’s part of the experience.
Cate Mayer 50:40
I think that’s you makes such a good point is that, you know, listening to it and and trusting it is just the first step, right? Really leaning into an acting, acting, acting on it is where the shift and the change takes place. And acknowledging that it’s not going to be perfect, you’re going to mess up you may I’ve made the wrong decision, you may need to backtrack, you may need to apologize to people for what you’ve done in terms of, you know, saying that to yourself and others that you made a mistake, but you’re gonna, you know, you’ve learned from it. I think that’s, that’s where the shift and the change takes place just following it and doing it is just the first step.
Sheila M 51:19
Yeah, yeah, I love that so much. Um, so I did want to talk a little bit about what I really see you embody lately especially, um, and I know for people it shifts all the time, but with this work that you’re doing now I see like a couple different cards with it, which I think is pretty cool because a lot of people are not just like one you know, but I definitely see the king of swords in this work that you’re doing because you’re very much in this kind of, like you said, it’s kind of like a leadership position. You’re kind of amplifying these voices of other people. And like drawing them up to the surface. But ultimately what you’re doing is you’re kind of leading the way with this new idea and, and a new way to engage people in in like an idea that already exists. So it’s, it’s really kind of showing people the steps and when we talk about like the kings in the Tarot especially, are very much about like being the leader like the one that’s kind of out in front. And while it’s not directly you you’re not like Cate Mayer being like, Hey, here’s my personal account and I’m sharing stuff what you are doing also, but you’re creating a forum for people to find their next step and, and to very, be very deliberate about which next steps they’re taking and how they’re using their energy. And part of the king of swords to is really being able to wield knowledge and and intellect and these inspired ideas into something that is very like direct and And constructive and can really help, you know, drive that idea across the finish line. So I think that’s really cool.
Cate Mayer 53:10
Something I just want to say. I mean, interrupt you, but go ahead. Yeah, that’s what friends do. Right. I think you said something that was just like, totally struck me. Ah, you said creating a forum for their next step. And I think that really hit me because a lot of what we talked about these last couple months was, you know, taking this time to think about what I wanted, right? And what what was it that I needed, you know, I’d always worked in corporations and companies where I was, you know, I was part of the forum but I wasn’t actually creating the forum, right. Like I didn’t, I didn’t come Ah, I didn’t come and say okay, like this is this is the brainchild idea of this not saying my ideas for each idea, but still, and I think the ability for me now to be in this position where I’m creating this forum, and creating the opportunity, it came from following my intuition. And it came from taking a leap and being like, Alright, I think this is gonna work. I don’t know, we’ll see. Um, and it wasn’t forced, you know, I think there’s, and this is no particular situation, but I think a lot of people are in these in these places were there in these positions with like a force of timing, right. And we talked a little bit about that earlier. But this, this kind of took time to get here. I mean, I left my job in May, and we’re in August, and it took a lot of doing different things from May to August to get me to create and follow my intuition of like, Okay, this is the next step for me, you know, and this is where I want to be and what I want to do and I think that’s a huge part of a following and being on this journey.
Sheila M 54:48
Yeah. And, and I think the other thing about the kings and one of the things because sometimes when it comes to like leadership, people are like, why are you the leader, you know, but I think Not a lot of people want to lead because not a lot of people want to be out in front. Because especially now I think there’s a lot of criticism. There’s a lot of people that are afraid of doing things, quote, unquote, the wrong way, or like making mistakes. And one of the things that I’ve really admired about you is that you don’t have that same fear of making mistakes, like you’re, you know, that you’re going to do it and perfectly, we’re both white women, I should say. And we know that we are going to lead them perfectly because we have led lives of privilege. But you, you aren’t letting that stop, you or slow you down and you’re kind of paving the way for other people to follow you and learn from your mistakes and integrate the wisdom that you’re learning kind of out in front which I think is is really important.
Cate Mayer 55:55
Thank you. I appreciate that.
Sheila M 55:56
Yeah. Um, and I do I because I One of the things that that I always say about the Kings is it’s not for everyone because like, you have to have a certain level of vulnerability to step out like that. I think when pulled away to Kings, they think like this is the person in charge. But whenever you’re in charge, it does open you up to like this huge amount of vulnerability. And it’s not about being fearless. It’s about being brave, and like showing up with courage in the face of things that are scary. And so I love that. And also along with that, I also see the 10 of wands, which is very much of whenever I see this card, it always like makes me think of you because it’s very much about kind of like carrying all these different passions and feeling such a sense of responsibility to kind of make them all happen. And I think just from a lot of the conversations that we’ve had, and working together in Tarot sessions, and everything It’s always about been about you trying to do the most with what you’ve been given and, and trying to like, elevate things to the next level. And when it comes to the 10 of wands, and a lot of it, I think you try to muscle yourself it sounds like now with this project, you’ve really kind of sought out some help and some people that can can help you to kind of elevate to the next level and are not single handedly doing it yourself. But on the other hand, the end of the spectrum, there’s you launching a giant project in two weeks.
Cate Mayer 57:37
amd waking up at two AMwith this next idea that I you know, it’s it’s amazing how like, the ideas, you sit at the desk, right? And you’re like, Okay, I got I am like, still in my routine. I wake up in the morning or how I go for my morning walk, I come back, I have breakfast, sit down and I’m like, Okay, I know what I need to do. And I get it done. But it’s like these waves of like ideas and partnerships and Like things and I’m like, I know we can do this if we put our mics when they come between like two and four in the morning and then I’m up because it’s like, Okay, I’m like, Why is no one else up I want to talk about this, you know, and pitch this like, you know, but
Sheila M 58:12
All my friends will talk about it. I’m like, I’ve got a friend or two who’s gotten like a 4am tax like I’m, I’m up late, I’m up early, I think especially when you are really connected. There is that idea of I’ve got a lot to do. And I’ve got all this, all these ideas coming in. And I also think that’s where that that 10 of wandss comes in to is kind of this inspired, intuitive ideas and these passion projects that kind of come through and it is not always convenient. But it is often at a very inconvenient time. I like sit around. There’s so many names about it and stuff too, but like, I’ll sit around and be like, okay, like I got this idea that I’m trying to kind of drawing and I I’ve seen it kind of peripherally but I can’t quite narrow it on it and I’ll give myself time to meditate and sit and do a little yoga and whatever, nothing. And then I’m like, out like picking up groceries or something. It’ll be like, right in the front of my brain. And I’m like, why does this happen?
Cate Mayer 59:14
Totally. That happened to me yesterday I like literally, you know, I was creating the content for this week. And I just was like, a total roadblock yesterday. And And finally, I was like, Alright, I give up, like, I’m gonna just let it go for today. I can’t, I can’t tap in and I was driving to my parents last night for dinner. And I’m literally halfway there. And it was like, I had to pull over on the side of the road. And because if I don’t write it down, I’m gonna forget that in an hour. That’s where my brains out at this point. And it’s been that way forever, but that’s alright. And I literally wrote and I’m like, tapping away, like writing this idea down and now it’s coming to word make it happen this week. But it’s like, yeah, it comes in those moments where you’re like, really, this is the most inconvenient time and like, I’m driving right now. I can’t Do this but
Sheila M 1:00:01
yeah, yeah, so I love I love that so much. Um, so I do want to offer everybody the opportunity to work with you and see what you’re up to and to get involved with your project. So where where can people find you? How can they work with you? What’s the best way to get in touch with you?
Cate Mayer 1:00:26
Absolutely. So we are a completely online driven campaign. And our main source of driver is through Instagram. We are obviously an inclusive community that we would love we have some actually do have some folks that are part of the community and movement that are in college and we have some older folks on board as well. But really, you know, kind of the, the, the demographic when I had in mind was kind of the mid 20s, early, mid 40 group, kind of Instagram user I will be 100% candid I am not on Tick Tock I am not learning Tik tok, I don’t know even how to tik tok, I don’t even know if that’s how you say it. So I’m gonna leave that to the kids. But we are on Instagram, its friends vote together is our Instagram account. We also have a website, friends together.org that has all the content, directly feeding to it from our Instagram account. So if you do not have Instagram, it’s all on our website. One thing that we have built out on the website as well, which is cool. And I think this is something that I was really cognizant of is I did some research, I guess it was two weeks ago. Now. You know, there’s a lot and this is goes to my point of elevating and working together versus competition. So I did this research and there’s 427 websites that you can go to register to vote 427. So, not all of those are like vote.org or an actual, you know, government website. A lot of them are sharing content and sharing accounts of other voter registration sites. But that’s way too many. I mean, that’s why people are feeling so overwhelmed and confused and not knowing where to go and is it this website or that website. So one thing that we’re really, you know, cognizant of is elevating and find the voices of those that we have research drills that we have used ourselves. And so we’ve created what we’re calling a voting hub on our website, and it’s on one page on the website where you can go check your registration, you can register to vote, you can request your mail and ballot you can find your polling place know if you need a voter ID. If you’re overseas or military where to go to check the registration. If you have a criminal record, you can go to a certain website to figure out what your rights are in terms of voting in your state, and it’s basically it says check registration, you click on the box and it takes you to the website, um, to the direct website that we link to that we we are using. It’s not the only website but One that we are using, and I think that kind of helps and narrows things down for people. So our website, as I said, has a ton of information for you guys to use. And then in the next week or so, we will be on Twitter and Facebook as well. That friends vote together. And always our contact information is on Instagram and it’s on our website as well. We’d love to hear from people if anyone wants to work together and partnering. Anything questions? feedback, you’re not doing this great. I hate your colors. change your font. I’m not changing my colors and font but I love I love our lock but I was very, very cognizant of how we created our lock in our colors but um, but yeah, I mean I’m I would love to hear from people and get people to join. I you know, as I said, we’re an inclusive community and that we really want to bring people together and we want to help educate and inform. Not just to be educated, informed voters, but educate And warm citizens because we need to be honest that in reality, we probably will not know the outcome of the election on November 3. But in the event that we did, the work doesn’t stop on November 4, right, this is just the beginning of a decade’s work ahead of us in terms of doing the work and being civically active and engaged and, and we’ll see what comes November, we have some things that are in the works in terms of how this is going to evolve post November. So we’ll see how that that all plays out.
Sheila M 1:04:32
Yeah, I’m so excited for this. So I’ll have everything linked up in the show notes. If you want to get in touch with Cate and your Friends Vote Together and your Instagram handle and your website and everything so that everybody can find you. But thank you so much for being here today. I’m happy we got to have this conversation.
Cate Mayer 1:04:53
And the last thing I want to I’m not I’m not going to take the last word but I do say you know i I think there is a lot of it’s kind of goes back to our comment of the cultural norms, right in terms of doing the work and how do we do the work and not raising your hand and saying I need help and kind of trying to talk with yourself. And I will be the first person to say at 38, you can’t do it all. And it is a sign of bravery. It is a sign of strength and is a sign of healthiness to reach out and ask for help and have conversations with friends and family. And people like Sheila, um, there is no doubt in my mind that I would be sitting here having this conversation with you, having launched this movement, hopefully making some kind of change in the world if we had not met a year ago, and I had been open to the conversation, but really had you there to support me and to have those conversations and make me feel like we were in this together. And so I think you know, the hardest part is raising your hand and saying, I need some help. I want to have a conversation and I encourage anyone One that’s listening to take that first step. And if you’re scared, obviously reach out to Sheila, but you can reach out to me personally, I’m happy to get you there just to talk to Sheila. Um, and I’ve had a lot of these conversations with friends over the years of doing that. And again, I’m no expert, but I’m happy to have that conversation and, and really push yourself to, you know, understand that everyone’s journey on intuition is different, that is not going to be loud, like mine is it is going to be soft and quiet. And some people may be loud and others and no one’s journey or timing is the same. You cannot force the timing of following your intuition and figuring out on your own when it’s going to happen or when it’s, you know, it’s the right time. And so, I think, you know, be open to it, be willing to do the work, find and surround yourself with people like sheilo and good friends that guide you and help you and and have those conversations with you. And really take the leap, it is a greatest thing you can do it is a form of self care is a form of self healing and is a form of, of self love. And I think I think everyone would would be in a much better place if we could all raise our hands a little bit more and say I need help. And that that is a sign of bravery. And that is a sign of strength and not weakness. So yeah, I just want to say like, I cannot recommend working with you enough.
Sheila M 1:07:29
Thank you, thank you, you’re like gonna make me cry. But I love that you said that too. Because I do think that’s the thing that comes up a lot for people. And, and there’s such a responsibility that’s placed on us. And I did actually forgot to ask you my question about what advice you would offer to people so it worked out.
Cate Mayer 1:07:48
See my y intuition told me that my intuition told me I should just jump in there.
Sheila M 1:07:55
Listen all the time. Exactly. So again, thank you. So much for being here, Cate, I’m so happy. I got to have you a conversation with a friend and somebody who is also very intuitive. So I will see you next week.
Thank you so much for listening to Living Tarot. If you loved today’s episode, please leave us a review and subscribe so that you never miss an episode. This helps us reach even more budding intuitives. Feel free to share on Instagram and tag me at @Starsagespirit and let me know what you learned, what surprised you, and what you’d like to hear even more of. As always, if you want to hear more about my courses, or book a reading with me, or for full episodes show notes you can head over to starsagespirit.com
